How is the contract being violated?

b. The intent of this agreement is to provide 50% of the AA new hire training slots to 824 AE pilots in such a way that the AE operation is not disrupted.

Tell me how the operation is being disrupted when there are zero time lines, pilots sitting at home on reserve for an entire month without being called, inefficient schedules, etc;

If management thinks that our operation will be disrupted in the current environment, then what type of environment do you envision where it won't be disrupted?

Read the contract again. It's 50% metered to 30. If they want to meter to 30 they can and they don't have to have a good reason to do so. The overstaffed argument is fine, and should be made. But contractually they are doing nothing wrong. For much of 2015 100% of AA classes were Envoy flows. So it's not like they are trying to pick on anyone..but if playing victim makes you feel better then by all means...

It's a predictable day when it's no longer easy for a salesmen to conceal the shortcomings and insufficiencies of his misrepresented product. It's usually only a matter of time. As usual, when you cannot refute the message, you attack the messenger. As was pointed out elsewhere, Envoy's own sales pitch here on this forum guarantee's 50% of each class. As for not violating your contract, it would appear Envoy ALPA disagrees with you, at least that is what has been stated.


But, the new figures are LESS then 300 a year which is also in disagreement to your previous sales pitch, now confirmed to be malarkey and for the record more personal attack.

It's violating the represented claims previously made and STILL made and once again as per Wilson, it will be LESS then 300/year. You can't even get your own B.S. straight anymore. As for the complaints, consider the rampant disregard for the pilots contract, your claims are simply "crying, complaining and beeyaching" yourself. Theirs are valid, yours are not.

The solution is for Envoy management to honor the spirit and intent of the CBA instead of by-passing and sharpshooting every thing they can. The WHOLE CBA. If AA can hire 70 next month, Envoy can certainly let an additional 5 pilot go, especially with low block lines, part-time lines, zero-time lines and high reserve counts who fly little. Those appear to be nothing more then orchestrated excuses to defend yet another short-changing of the pilot group. At this rate though, they SHOULD be concerned about the future as anyone who doesn't have rocks in their head will be more apt to avoid Envoy with each and every action and excuse like this.

LOL ! Man, you just can't take the sales out of the salesman. :rolleyes: Here you are, after all this, claiming that the flow WILL be larger after 2016 with no more recalls. Hey, wizard, they aren't claiming the inability to flow to more then 30 because of the recalls, but because of Envoy's supposed issues with "disruption" at ENVOY !

At least now everyone here can see exactly who and what a few of these characters really are here. It is simply undeniable.

Death by a thousand small cuts. It's an old trick on how to dilute labor groups contractual benefits. That along with distraction and misapplied praise.

Notice how that exact phrase (disrupted) was used in response to the question ? Envoy's present and future flow's are virtually certain to run at the minimum rate possible just as Letter 3 did.

You cant be a pilot for envoy...... nobody who could potentially be placed that far behind schedule would see it the way you see. At best it is a grey area they are exploiting. Career earning potential goes down from being stuck at envoy an extra 2 months let alone what this has the potential of becoming to a new hire, who was promised a 5 year flow.

For a company who preaches the flow as the only thing needed to recruit new hires, I'd say they have greatly damaged their recruiting efforts based on this one month too. Keeping 5 here could mean losing 20 new hires, if they were on the fence about the flow.

At least they're doing it now so it serves as a warning for all potential new-hires. Personally, I couldn't care less right now if envoy recruits the suppose 350 that they want for 2016. Our outstanding on-time performance and the fact that we're overstaffed clearly have no bearing on us keeping more flying in-house. This entire airlines business plan revolves around dangling carrots.

The fact that they are withholding to minimum flow rate considering their scheduling practices and present staffing ratios would seem to indicate they believe they will get nowhere near their desired new-hire numbers claimed. Also considering potential attrition through other carriers ramping up hiring tends to support concern of a faster contraction rate for Envoy that is being revealed.

I think this road is littered with red flags right now, even more so then just a few months ago. We shall see.............

There are 70 total AA new hires in February. Envoy has announced that only 30 will flow in February. They are required to flow 50%, which would be 35 in this case.

The "metering" to 30/month is only allowed if it would hurt Envoy's ability to staff our flying. Clearly, since we have zero-time/part-time/below-guarantee lines, we have the ability to release the full 50%.

They could still make this right by flowing the required 50% in February; however I have no confidence in them following the contract.

50% is 50%.