JustAsking

Well since the new contract pretty much promised 5 year flow or 20 year Captain pay, I guess it would be interesting to see how many are flowing and how many are getting the 20 yr CA pay? Im sure there are alot of 4-5 yr envoy pilots who should, conceivably be flowing either now or soon since they are at the 5 yr mark, right?

NoValueAviator

20/month
unless you count all the junior FO's flowing to Delta and junior captains flowing to United. it's a feeding frenzy baby.

pitchattitude

No. you misunderstand how this works. It’s not a choice to flow WHEN you get to the five year mark. You flow when your number comes up, not specifically at the end of five years. That is happening some where around six years and change right now. I don’t see that it is likely to get that number less than five years, any time soon, if ever. The extra bump in pay to the 20 year scale happens for those that have been at the company for five full years and haven’t had an opportunity to flow. Basically a “we’re sorry you haven’t made it to AA yet, here’s some extra money to drown your sorrow”. Once you are given the opportunity to flow, if you don’t accept it, your pay will go back down to what ever your years of service are at that point (6, maybe 7, based on current flow times). The exception is if you become a LCA, your base pay will remain at the 20 year rate. The other caveat is that current rates include the 50% premium that is set to expire August 2024.

livingAAdream

What’s a timeline after someone gets selected for the flow?
How far is the class after you get selected?

pitchattitude

Usually a couple months. Just count bodies and that will give you and idea when your class is. The actual number “selected” each month varies for some reason, but the number that flows is still 20 per month.

Cujo665

What does the time to flow look like now that they just announced reducing flow to 16 a month?

I’m assuming that with such a smaller pilot group than before that it won’t drastically change flow time for a person hired today….

with all the work rule and pay changes it’s finally getting close to where it should have been 8 years ago. It was a 3200 pilot and 306 plane company back before then… around 2008-2011. They canned the ATR’s shortly afterwards. Then slowly closed base after base as it shrank.

for a new pilot starting out, Envoy is still a top choice. I may have blasted management as part of the union job back then from time to time, but the airline has always been stable, good training, good equipment, and well respected (for regionals) in the industry. If it weren’t a good job, I’d have left long before I eventually did. I also wouldn’t have fought the 3 separate terminations from them over trumped up BS either.
All BS aside It was (is) a job worth keeping. At least until a Boeing/Airbus job calls. I should have looked sooner. You guys really won’t understand how horrible all regionals are by entire industry standards until you’re out of them.

I am glad to see so many good changes at Envoy, even if it took drastic conditions to force the changes. The current MEC is doing a great job from what I’ve seen; the union volunteers at all levels deserve your full thanks and support.
End rant

NoValueAviator

About 12 years for a new hire with no outside attrition.

ClappedOut145

Seems about right I do you factor in 100 lifers. Flow should be a backup plan.

TransWorld

Any data or feel with realistic outside attrition?

NoValueAviator

Plan A is become a check airman year 2, amass 10 million in the next 10 years and retire as soon as they call you to flow.

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Pilot hiring is insanely unpredictable. Most airlines were hiring 0/mo less than 24 months ago. Now the ones that can are doing classes of 100+ every single week. Trying to estimate attrition from the starter airline on a 10+ year timeline is impossible.