My understanding is LGA is being offered 0 time lines. Which means they are staff at a decent level. Why is the company metering the flow? We can't continue being abused by the company no longer! This is ridiculous!

They can't cry understaffed, for the metering, and then not try to staff the airline. That's some next level BS.

Because they are basing staffing needs on future staffing requirement projections. They like their projections around here.

Inaccurate projections. ORD was projected to have 75 lines in Feb...... and we have 64 lines. They can’t even project 1 month out.

Envoy FB page gives very different numbers

Kicking off 2018 with a bang and welcoming nearly 60 new pilots to the team! #TeamEnvoy *This class is made up of 32 ORD EMJ, 9 ORD E175, 17 LGA EMJ

Maybe those numbers are post-displacement

It does say at the bottom on the APC recruitment page that the flow is 9 years and increasing so I'm curious as to why a recruiter would make this sort of false statement on a Facebook recruitment page...

I think that was the last class of 2017, which was 58 I think. Probably just didn't get the picture taken until the came back from home study.

Upgrades
 

As a fairly new FO (200 SIC currently), I've been noticing that forced upgrades are certain with many FO's reaching 1000 SIC time. Since I still feel quite new to the atmosphere I'm working in, I almost find it very hard to believe I'll be ready to upgrade at the bare minimum time. Would it be frowned upon or upset the company if someone like me were to intentionally obtain a 2nd class medical instead of 1st so I couldn't be forced into the left seat and buy myself another year as an FO and gain more experience? I know many people may think this sounds silly (because why turn down higher pay), but would appreciate feedback from some guys who have been around a while.

I’m was/am in a similar boat with 400 hrs 121, (1350TT). Even if that would fly I wouldn’t do it. You will be ready enough if you get yourself into the PIC mindset. Don’t let the captain check the books and the weather, etc and just nod and work the flaps without looking into everything yourself. Ask questions and be a sponge and things will work out. 1000hrs is more than you think. Many, like myself, have become airline pilots with less than 1000hrs in an airplane...that’s crazy to think about from the perspective of someone just starting out. In other words, you probably won’t feel the same as you do now, when you actually have the hours under your belt.

LOL.. no offense to you at all but I’m just laughing at this post.

Please don’t upgrade unless you are ready. Tell them that. They will understand. The company wants you to upgrade, not necessarily, the union, training, chief pilots, and probably the FAA too. The only reason they’re doing this is to survive another day and keep planes moving, it’s a total safety oversight because of some obscure clause in a contract.

I was trying to give them some motivation and reassurance. But your solution is to just “tell them you don’t want to upgrade”? Wonder how many guys that has worked for who didn’t want to upgrade so far...
Pretty sure you have to prove to the FAA/company that you are aren’t ready to be PIC, aka fail your training, then you have a failure on your record following you everywhere. But I’ll be sure to check the box on the next displacement that says “Not ready”

Has anyone called the FAA to see what they think of a company that is forcing people to be PIC against their will?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

What's the FAA going to say? "You have a PIC type rating but we agree you aren't ready for the left seat"? Yeah right...

Excellent point....

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Good point, could be
Was posted yesterday and the 145 ord/lga numbers agree, just minus the crj and some of the 175, so looks odd

Training schedule
 

Can anyone lay out a basic training format for me? Is it only Monday through Friday or weekends as well? Are you given any time off?

Over on the republic forum they are talking about envoy taking the 175 down to MIA. Any truth to that?

Word is from a couple of different mgmt types, there will be some fly through flying later this summer.

Those are for a different class, previous to this most recent one

Edit: just noticed someone else had answered that already and said the same thing

That’s fine you can do some on the job training on the left seat with paying passengers. Just let me know when you do so I can tell my family to take the next one. If he doesn’t feel ready, he needs to tell them. That’s the only way they’ll stop these force do upgrades and come up with a safer solution. I guarantee asaps will be on the rise or worse...

I heard of someone going to the CP and saying he didn’t feel safe being a CA yet and got his CA award vacated. (Hear say information.)

I have been hearing and reading on here the company is going to limit NHs to 30 per month or per class going forward. I guess this won’t take too long before we find out the validity of this information.

Many are guessing it’s to let the back log unclog but I think it may have more to do with the CA FO imbalance that would happen if we continue to hire 900 pilots this year. I’m guessing since we are running out of FOs to upgrade we don’t need as many FOs anymore. The 2017 NHs won’t have the 1000 hours until 2019-2020. If we hired another 900 pilots this year I’m guessing we would have more than 1500 pilots with less than a 1000 hours by the end of the year. I’m guessing we are going to be some what neutral on CA growth this year. 300-350 gone with Flow AND attrition to OAL. 2016 guys will start coming of age to be upgraded and they may account for 250-300 added to the 150 that was just forced to upgrade.

It's usually Mon - Fri

You'll get a schedule sometime during your INDOC and day 1 of systems.

Here's what mine looked like

7? days of INDOC [2 days off]

30 days off for home study, although my friend only had a week off. another friend had 2 weeks off. (memory items, limitations, flows. you can knock out the cbt)

3 days of emergency training

6 days off for CBT

2 weeks of systems, on day 2 you'll start IPT and CPT the final 2 days. [you'll have weekends off]

Oral

Few days off then Sim, you also get weekends off during sim.

Good luck!

Don't expect weekends off when sims are involved. If you got weekends off great but those sims run almost non-stop. I know I had one on Easter Sunday (can't remember if it was a cbt or an actual sim lesson but either way...)

If you want to laugh for a short bit, read this.
https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.raa.or...regas.docx.pdf

That was the December class in the FB photo. They took the picture last week.

In summary. “This is gonna cost us some cheddar. And I might have to lay off my nanny.”

Mommy needs her alone time.

Haha that's funny he wrote in 2014 about how university's resquired 1500 hours when they didn't and how they should lower the time for people at those university's which they already had. The letter should have been, thanks you guys already did exactly what I want.

Just talked to someone in the schoolhouse. Apparently it’s true they are capping the classes at 30, 12 of which have to have 950 hours 121 time so they can be upgraded quickly.

So much for 900 this year. Sounds like another flow metering grievance...artificially capping classes yet still metering.

Envoy
 

Such a predictable move! I knew this would happen. Makes a lot of sense. Tailor hiring for company needs which is prior 121 experience for quick captain upgrades. Flood gates of NH being shut to allow for more HVA’s.

Metering flow of PP group due to CA shortages. This is cause by the company’s (renewed) goal of growth; back to 2013 levels. ALPA will have a difficult time legally fighting any grievance against a Pro Business Arbitrator Judges that will side with the company 95% of the time. They will NOT harm growth and job creation drive of any company which the President of the United States wants.

Say goodbye to hopes of getting a pay raise like Endeavor, Republic, Commutair for line pilots. That hope is now put to bed for at least few a months.

What does training look like for someone already typed in the ERJ without any 121 time assuming thats the fleet they are assigned? Seems counterproductive to go through a whole initial systems class no?

It’s the same..

You have to complete the training program that has been blessed by the FEDS.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

59 more hrs to go for me to upgrade. Ill happily fly that E145 junk as long as im in command.

Lol and what does that mean? Did they teach that at Riddle?

What, how to be a tool? It is hard to say. He may have learned it there, or it just might come naturally to him.

Are you going to be able to handle not having VNAV and auto-throttles? You’d better hunker down in your mom’s basement, get on your flight simulator and start practicing.

And *GASP* he’ll have to change his handle! Wonder if the ego can take the hit?

Flow Information
 

There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding flow-through, especially for new hires. Here is some information:

-Flow is currently about 12 years (2006 hires are in line next).

-It appears flow MAY drop to 11 years by early 2019 (2008 hires) and possibly 9 years by summer 2019 (2010 hires).

-A lucky select few hired from summer 2015 - early 2016 may see a sub-6 year flow-through. For folks hired the end of 2016 and beyond, wait times should steadily increase.

-A new hire today will probably wait at least 9 years. I'm not sure if folks are still being told "6 years," but that does not appear possible for someone hired today.

-Per the contract, flow-through is scheduled to dramatically slow for folks hired after October 2011, and it slows even more after 2014 hires.

-These are likely best-case scenarios, as flow is currently less than the required 50 percent, and mainline routinely goes several months each year with ZERO new hire classes; this by definition frequently pauses the flow. I'm guessing that the projections listed here are wildly optimistic, and it will probably take longer for most.





These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any entity or employer.