Originally Posted by howardhughes8 (Post 2583426)

Let’s please stay on thread, way off the rails. Please.

Originally Posted by busdriver12 (Post 2583493)

My ego is irrelevant. But pretending that you are a FedEx pilot by regurgitating things others have said to appear knowledgeable is misleading.

To get back on track with the reserve question, there are many people that ditch as much of their reserve as they can and pick up trips instead. I see some of the very bottom guys only flying trips. However, people can't always do it, especially during peak. We seem to be adequately staffed right now, in many seats.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2583183)

Can they also create a set criteria that would allow as many of our pilots as possible (even if only 20% for example) to commute protected while satisfying the company’s desire to protect the operation as well?

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2583183)

Why is this assumption always made that the commute has to be on a Fedex flight? Not all other airlines limit their pilots protected commutes on their own flights.

Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 2582476)

OK, based on that "rule,":rolleyes: you can't jump in the night before A reserve or the morning before B reserve. You can't jump in just before starting a hotel standby, and possibly can't jump in from the west coast to start a trip the operates back to the west coast.

Why aren't you listing all of those restrictions as well? I know, because they don't exist. You can jump in whenever you like, you just aren't protected from discipline.

There is no rule against jumping in the night before a long haul departure. I've done it many times and will do it again. And you are correct in stating that the company doesn't actively look for it, but they were actively looking at your buddy. Why?

Originally Posted by busdriver12 (Post 2582507)

Purpletoolbox, I do agree with some of your points, but I think you're going to have a hard time convincing people to be passionately angry about the company not putting their blessing on jumpseating into long haul flights. They can't control whether someone is appropriately rested going into a flight, but that doesn't mean they have to put their stamp of approval onto something they believe is a bad idea.

I've been here for a rather long time, and our safety record is eye opening. Fatigue has been a huge factor in this, and the improvement in safety over the last several years is substantial.

I can also imagine how it would be tough to cover a 70-80 credit hour trip when the jumpseat goes kaput at the last minute. No backups, very little notice. There are plenty of things that need to be fixed, but not too many people are going to get spun up about this one.

Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 2582684)

Because, unlike the pax carriers, we only have two launches a day at most. If you are jumping in at night to start an a.m. launch, what do you have as a back-up to get to work? What other airline allows you to jumpseat into work without a backup and if you miss your flight, it's ok? Would you prefer the standard of having to have at least one back-up flight to jumpseat in on that arrives before your trip? How would that work in MEM when most of the arrivals get in after 11 pm? Is there a pax carrier that you could use for a back-up?

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2582729)

So why is there a rule for domestic and not international? Whatever it is that the best practice is, why isn’t that a rule in the contract? Why only have one and not the other?

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2582987)

PTB,

You continually assert that we have a restriction on commuting into long-haul flights that is both enforced by management and codified in our CBA. These are not factual statements. Any pilot here has the option to make that choice if they want. I don’t claim the intimate knowledge that you do regarding this “removal event” everyone has heard of. I heard it involved some military duty which when combined with the commute and pending international flight gave a management pilot who was made aware some pause for concern. Whatever the details, unless that pilot and this other senior jumpseater who were removed from their trips want to come on PFC and share their details firsthand, I think we’re all shooting in the dark. Even if you have the specifics accurate, what I do know is this event occurred during the tenure of JG as 777 Fleet captain (or whatever we called that position at the time). I’m pretty sure he was the person who made the decision to remove this pilot. Perhaps the non-probationary pilot just got caught in the frag pattern and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It wouldn’t be the first time someone in a position of authority over-stepped their mandate. But, the bottom line is that this occurred years ago, JG is retired and I don’t think it’s valid to conclude that this one isolated event means we are all subject to the restrictions you claim.

The CBA language you quote to support your claim does not. It certainly doesn’t prohibit a pilot from scheduling a jumpseat that doesn’t comply with 26.J.2. The whole purpose of it is to give each pilot specifics on how to commute to work while receiving protection in the case of a failed commute. It’s not written to imply some kind of restriction applies to those pilots who either choose not to meet the criteria or can’t because of their commute situation. They just don’t get the benefit of the protection. The authors of that section were attempting to create a set of criteria that would allow as many of our pilots as possible to commute protected while satisfying the company’s desire to protect the operation. That’s it. As far as the 13:30 duty day restriction – that seems to match the operational (not scheduled) domestic duty restriction currently in our CBA. It also matches what most domestic hub-turn pilots are going to do the night following their commute anyway. They’re going to show an hour prior to a flight inbound to MEM, fly in, sit the sort and fly out to a layover. Why wouldn’t management agree to a commute plan/duty day that effectively matches what each pilot is limited to on any given night of hub-turning.

Your discussion of numbers of reserves vs trips may provide some rationale for a new, separate long-haul commuter policy we could negotiate but beyond that it really has nothing to do with reality. The simple fact is that given our flight schedule, very few of our long-haul commuters would be able to meet the requirements set out in the commuter policies of the major airlines. So, it makes no sense to say they we should be able to do what they do. Many of their long-haul pilots face the same limited options that many of our pilots have and as a result are not able to commute into their trips with commuter protection either.

There’s a very important distinction between the commuter policies at major airlines and the one in place at FedEx. Our policy was written to allow almost every pilot commuting to almost any domestic trip on our own aircraft to do that protected. Pax guys typically need a flight and one or two back-ups but that policy in no way guarantees them access to every trip in their domestic bid-pack. Our policy also allows pilots to commute to just about any domestic trip they can hold. Do you ever hear one of our domestic pilots talk about whether a trip is “commutable” or not? I haven’t. That can be a pretty significant distinction for pax pilots, both long and short haul types. Many pax commuters with seniority choose to avoid half their bidpack lines because they can’t get there the same day. Those who can’t avoid them have to commute in the day before. Same thing on the back end of trips that don’t give them a chance to get home that same day and would require an extra night in domicile.

Regarding your continuing claim that long-haul airline pilots enjoy a much more liberal approach to their commute, I have to wave the BS flag because you’re really talking apples and oranges. You’re cherry picking one commute scenario and making what I believe is a very broad and incorrect assumption that it applies to “95%” of pax long-haul pilots. To then extrapolate that assumption to every long-haul pilot at FedEx is equally incorrect. We don’t have access to the same flight schedules many of those pax pilots do. Our flights leave at completely different time blocks than their flights and the commuter flight options for a large number of our pilots are just not as numerous.

I don’t think you’ve bothered to actually consider various commute scenarios for all these “lucky” long-haul pax guys who can commute into their trips with protection. Maybe you’ve got some pals at other airlines who’ve found a niche that works great for them based on where they live and their seniority. But, not every long-haul pilot at those airlines have such picture-perfect commute. Certainly not 95%. I just deadheaded out of ORD on an AA flight to PVG that left at 10:30. My next one goes to NRT at 13:00. Can a Denver based AA pilot commute into those flights? Not the PVG flight. None of the AA or UAL flight gets him from DEN to ORD in time. So, he has no choice but to come in the night before. How about the later NRT flight? Probably – since he’s got one primary on his own metal and a UAL backup. What if he lives in SEA? Then he can’t get to either one. How about those AA pilots who choose to live in a smaller community like Norfolk, VA (very popular with quite a few FedEx pilots). Again, unable to make the PVG flight with a same day commute. The NRT flight? Maybe but he’s not on his own metal, using an offline A319 as his primary and an RJ for a backup that arrives with 4 minutes to spare prior to check-in time. Would that pass the sniff test for the Chief pilot if the pilot misses his trip? I can’t say for sure, but I kind of doubt it. I don’t think I would care to do that for every trip and I seriously doubt a Norfolk resident AA pilot would either.

Originally Posted by mainlineAF (Post 2583675)

AA pilots do not need a backup flight to be protected by the commuter policy. The single flight can be either online or offline. The flight must “arrive at the pilots domicile within a reasonable time before scheduled departure”.

Online: adequate seat availability within 24 hours of departure.

If you have the primary jumpseat booked that is sufficient. If the flight is on an RJ then I’ve used the policy when there was one seat open when non-rev check in became available 24 hours prior.

Offline: scheduled to operate 24 hours prior to your departure.

If you can’t make it you are removed without pay. Scheduling may take you off the entire trip or allow you to join up with the trip at some point. It’s up to their discretion.

Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox (Post 2583634)

For New Hires:
1. The company has drawn a line in the sand and is letting the pension die by inflation.


A-Same is true at UPS. Unless you think an increase of FDA value from 4k to4.2k over 5 years matches inflation.
Similar thinking is True when you evaluate profit sharing at the Pax airlines...they only get a Fixed % w/ no annual increases each year.


2. Even though the company raised our B-fund contributions to 8% soon to be 9%, the increase still doesn't meet or exceed the rate of inflation over the life of this contract so your total retirement value is in decline each year.

A-WTF. Our B plan funding is supposed to increase 2-3% each year to keep up with Inflation? Doesn't that kind of mean our B fund contributions should be over 70% now if we wanted to keep up with the increase in Inflation since 99 (Note-70% is no way intended to be intrepreted as the actual increase in Inflation since 99...just a number as Food For thought)
See, I kinda thought the Increases in Salary were intended to offset Inflation. Just as the IRS limit that 8/9% is based on is intended to offset inflation.

3. UPS pilots our main competitor, has a B-fund contribution of 12% versus FedEx's 8%/9%. Delta/AA/United pilots which don't have a pension plan have a 16% B-fund contributions.

A-True. UPS also has a 1% A plan. If you are a Capt, with 30YOS, you have the option of the highest of the FDA or the 1%. That FDA amount is 120k right now, and again, that's at 30 years. A 25 YOS UPS Capt has a 100k Pension, a 25 YOS UPS First Officer has a 75'sh k Pension. A FedEx pilot, Captain or FO, has the potential of 130k Pension

4. FedEx does not have any profit sharing. In 2017, 15% of earnings for Delta pilots came from profit sharing. AA/SWA/UAL also have profit sharing.

A-True. Profit sharing comes\profit sharing goes. Pax carriers Instituted it as a partial replacement for their Pension. I would rather have our Pension. YMMV


5. Recently FedEx ALPA proposed freezing the pension and replacing it with a Variable Annuity pension plan similar to what UPS pilots have. This will be a major change to FedEx pilots' retirement should this occur. Many are debating the pros and cons of this change at this time. There are many unknowns and given the union's failure in securing sound negotiating language there is the potential for the company to really screw us out of a retirement.

A- The Variable Pension proposal in no way represents what UPS pilots have. The Values are Far in Excess of what UPS pilots currently have. IT would be a significant change. But unlike Flat Bed seats....Pension formulas are regulated via the Federal Govt and are NOT subject to Company intrepetation or arbitration. Funding is Established via long practiced legalese. Just as it is in our current Pension. A 2% FAE is a 2% FAE regardless of how the Company might try to screw us out of retirement. Pensionable Earnings are Pensionable Earnings and are already Defined. The Earnings Cap...is defined. Currently, it is Capped at 260k. Proposal is to tie it to the Same Cap our B plan is defined at or 275k, adjusted each year Per IRS-not via The Company

6. The company has exploited the language in our contract and thus issues we thought were fixed with C2015 has turned into losses/concessions.

A- Most notably Flat Bed seats. Deviation bank, domestically, is more accurate but it's not a 100% solution in all cases. Over the Past 8 months, All-All of my Company ticketed fares have come in at or Below the Values that autopopulate my Expense Report.
Other practices The Company was doing to Screw with us ceased w/CBA2015 language. Most notably, changing a Single Day layover via a trip revision just doesn't occur (Imagine showing up at Memphis expecting to operate back home only to find out The Company has revised your pairing to layover somewhere else and there's nothing you can Do. NOW, should the company do that it costs them 3 CHS. So they don't do it)
Another thing that happens less frequently is additional landings in the critical duty period, that automatically triggers extra pay if operated.
Another thing added via CBA2015 is the Automation of Most\not All, Extra Compensation triggered by various company actions. In the past, The Company was just Fine with you not requesting Extra Duty Period Pay or Disruption Compensation.

7. C2015 is six years long. Other airlines who are now on par with FedEx, possibly even surpassing us in compensation, will get to negotiate one possibly two more contracts before we see another.

A-During those 6 years we're scheduled to exceed the 3% payslope UPS has, SWA has.
Delta, UAL, AA exceeding us in Hourly Rate doesn't diminish my Compensation and makes an Easy Target for our Negotiations. Really, really hoping the Pilot Shortage Continues to have an Impact on Mainline Pilot Compensation thinking. Pretty much no Other Reason to Explain the Mid-Contract raises we've seen in the past 2 years. That's simply unprecendented in Pilot History. As have the Relatively Quick Contract Approvals. 3-5+ years was about the norm, and recently S6 negotiations have been accomplished in 6-18 months.

So, Please Delta, get WB Capt Pay up to 400$ plus....for the roughly 12% of your Pilots who can get the Big Bucks

8. The union doesn't educate new hires about the contract which allows the company to take advantage of new hires who don't know the contract, and drives a wedge between the workforce and the union.

A-Why aren't the Newhires reaching out to the Capts they fly with? Or the hopefully experienced Senior guy at the Crashpad....If YOU don't know you're being Taken Advantage of...how does that drive a wedge. There are plenty of Sources of Good Information. Even the Internet typically gets it Right, after a bit. IF all else fails, PM TonyC, can't think of a single CBA question he's been incorrect about.

9. FedEx has the worst Reserve System in the airline industry. Period. Every day of Reserve is a short call day. If you are on Reserve you will have to be in Memphis/your Hub. If you are awarded with one of the scant R24 lines, the company will put you in Base Hotel Standby.

A-Do Other Airlines have a 60 Second Service guarantee or your money back? FedEx does. It's ALSO why we fly Empty planes for hours, to protect the Freight. It's Why an Airplane Flys by TLH every night about the same time the TLH plane is scheduled to depart.
After a certain amount of time, being on Reserve is a CHOICE. And being on Reserve in Memphis can be exceptionally lucrative during normal manning periods. I have flown trips with Memphis folks who have a landing lookback of 1 or 2 (Airbus days) Why lucrative you ask? Well, once you are Senior enough to hold carryover Reserve you have the potential to wind up with Every Darn day of your Calendar being a Reserve Day and still manage to fly very little.

9. Substitution. If you are removed from a trip, substitution can be extremely complicated. Elsewhere, you just go home and get paid trip guarantee.

A-It's Complicated by Choice. Make it Simple and Stay eligbile for SUB and you go home and get paid Trip Guarantee (4 hours after your scheduled Show, again, See 60 Second Service Guarantee when you ponder why FedEx might have Substitution, which predated CBA99 and is from the early days of FedEx)
And Again-being able to Decline Substitution opens up Opportunities for being paid 9 or 12CHs per day of work. 1st two days Extended into Time Free from duty pay at 150%, beyond that it pays at 200%. But, by all means, feel free to Choose 100% pay and Trip Guarantee. That is after all, The Default Option as established in the Software written by The Company.

10. Vacancy Bids. They're extremely complicated. You bid for vacancy. Then once awarded a position, you bid for training. It can take up to or over a year to get to your new position and trained. You have no control as to when you'll go to training as the company can choose to hold you in position or send you to training when you don't want to go. But you'll get paid if they hold you or if they send you early. Some other airlines have small monthly vacancy or training bids and if you're awarded a position you know you're going to training the next month. Easy.

A-So, Some Other Airlines might not have Bids For Months. But at FedEx you know you are Eventually going to change Seats. And Now, you get to Control when you do so. For Example, Weddings, Births, Graduations...all can have a play on whether you choose to Upgrade. Formerly, FedEx ran a bid about every year. Post Age Change, they've extended that out. Up to them still. But Now, you can bid at 100% not have to worry about whether to Upgrade or Not, since formerly The Company had total Control over when you went to Training...now, you can go, or not go, at your choice. Go early and be the bottom guy on Reserve, or defer defer defer.

11. Reserve revisited. When you return back to base on a trip assigned to you while on reserve, you have within 30 minutes to call the schedulers to ask if you are released. Why? Because they can (and will) keep assigning you more trips. So just when you think you're going home or back to your crashpad (if you don't live in base), you'll be headed back out on another flight as soon as the sort is complete. I'm failure sure at other airlines once you returned back to base you were released and went home - no calling the schedulers and asking if there's anything else to fly.

A-60 Second Guarantee. FedEx Does NOT Staff to have 200-300% Reserve Coverage. Never has.
More Often than Not, when I've been hub turning on Reserve I've been scheduled to do so while I've been sleeping in the Hub post the Sick Call drop.
Rarely do I give CRS a call and have them assign me a trip. Normally released to a legal rest period. Often, released to go home til my next R days.

12. Bidding. Monthly bids are nearly month long endeavors. You have regular lines, secondary lines, and reserve lines. Secondary lines are lines built from the trips that are knocked off schedules due to vacation, training, etc.etc. The secondary line process involves using computer based inputs for your preferences on which trips you'd like to fly. It is our version of PBS. However, many people complain that the system (which I believe is manually executed -- not computerized) routinely violates their preferences. Also, if awarded a secondary line, you don't get your line until the Wednesday before the beginning of the flying month which may leave little time before your next trip. Also, because the line holders already had their lines and were able to schedule their jumpseats in advance, you may have to offline jumpseat or come in the day/night before.

A-It CAN't be a monthlong endeavor. Monthly Bid is only Open for roughly a week (rounding up). Potential to Maximize your fun during Vacation\recurrent training adds some time...but, not a month. BidX guy here. My Monthly bid takes me 30-45 minutes max, took even less when I was Junior. Training\Vacation inputs take me 10'sh minutes max. It's just not that Complicated.

New VTO Software will be different. For 1, seems to Actually be building in Seniority Order as regards to Trip Requests if the Abscence of Complaints is accurate anyways.
Jumpseats--if you are requesting to go to work on the 1st Tuesday of the bid month..then just schedule your JS. Just remember to cancel it if your VTO line is built differently.
Vast Majority of my VTO lines are Double DHs with the Odd 1 or 2 day stand alone pairing mid-month to meet BLG targets. Again, YMMV. But, I tend to bid Lines I want to Fly, top 30-50%VTOs, then Reserve Lines I'm willing to Sit.

I can go on .. but it is time for bed.

Originally Posted by Raptor (Post 2584095)

One minor point about jumpseating on FedEx planes when you bid secondary. You would have to make reservations as staging or personal when you don’t have your secondary schedule yet because the new Jumpseat system checks your schedule within 3 days to determine if you’re permitted to book business status. Therefore, in some of the more popular cities, you can get locked out of the FedEx Jumpseat by BP4 jumpseaters while waiting on your secondary line.

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2583625)

I don’t know. Can they? What do you suggest?
Are we still talking about jumpseating into a long-haul trip or has this morphed into something else? I mean, that’s how I ended up posting what I did.
When PurpleToolBox uses the term “commuting into” a trip, I believe he is referring to setting up a commute to have a relatively short time from commute complete to report time. Based on our schedule, the most effective way to do that is jumpseat on our own aircraft. So, that’s what I’m picturing when we have this discussion of setting up a protected commute. That’s why we have the protection and why the airline guys do. So we all can hopefully spend minimum time commuting, arrive within a few hours or less of the report time and do so with some redundancy. Therefore, part of the problem lies in the fact that the departure time of our morning flights doesn’t match up very well with any flights other than our own. With a few outlying exceptions, the only flights that would truly allow us to commute into most of our long-haul flights like the pax guys do are FX flights. If this has become about a pilot being protected when they jumpseat offline and come in 12 hours prior so they can go to their crashpad or a hotel and sleep, then that’s a different discussion, in my opinion

I’m not assuming a commute has to be on a FedEx flight. I rarely use a FedEx flight to commute to MEM for a 777 trip. I commute offline because I want to get to MEM and have a chance to sleep before my trip. It has nothing to do with concerns about being pulled off my trip if I jumpseat on our flight. So, even if we had a commuter policy that protected me while doing that, I still wouldn’t do it. But, I get the desire for something better than what we have. I just don’t think trying to use a passenger airline commuter policy as a model is valid or realistic if we are putting the policy into practice to allow us to commute into a long-haul flight.

One reason for that is there are some pretty significant differences between a typical major airline commute and ours to MEM. By definition, a major airline pilot domicile is typically a large hub with numerous inbound flight from every city they serve. Most commuters have direct flights for their commute. Contrast that with MEM. An outstation for all the major airlines with limited daily flights and requiring a connection for everyone except those few who live in one of the major airline hubs.

About those back-up flights. When someone has to explain their commute plan after they missed a trip, the back-up has to actually be available to the commuter. A 19:00 UAL primary commuter flight can’t use a 19:05 AA flight that leaves from the other side of O’hare as a back-up. So, the time getting from the pax terminal to the “dark side” of the FedEx ramp has to factored in to someone’s commute if it’s going to pass when they have to explain their situation.

I’m also coming at this discussion with the attitude that commuting into a 03:30 MEM-NRT flight is a completely different situation than commuting to a 15:30 pax flight to NRT. We all know the challenges of working at that time of day. Being rested for that departure is difficult even for someone who doesn’t commute. The logistics of even the best commute situation including a back-up to make that departure result in beginning one’s commute a minimum of 8-9 hours prior to departure. That’s showtime at the airport for a direct pax flight – not getting on and having enough time to get over to the FedEx ramp for the back-up. That’s best case (other than having access to two FX flights as primary and back-up). So, if FedEx offered us a typical airline commuter clause of any primary and any back-up, that means that almost all our pilots trying to comply while commuting to that NRT flight would be on duty at least 22-23 hours by the time they got on final at NRT. I know commuting isn’t duty but let’s be realistic about this. It’s not sleep either. I don’t care if you manage to nod off on the jumpseat or maybe catch a nap in a sleep room before show time. Those are great if they happen, but they’re not guaranteed events. Neither is sleeping on the bunk during the flight. I’ve had plenty of great sleep opportunities ruined by turbulence.

So, my point is that by putting that commute policy into practice, FedEx is basically giving tacit approval for that 22 to 23-hour duty day. They have no deniability because that’s the best-case scenario for almost everyone who would attempt to commute into that trip.

Contrast that with Airline “X” using the same policy: They treat the process like a black box and don’t want to know how you make the sausage – just that you’re in domicile when you’re supposed to be. There are so many variables to each pilot’s situation and the inbound flight schedules that it’s impossible to specifically determine what each one is doing. So, they have the ability to claim ignorance that FedEx would not.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2584365)

I'm not really sure why you keep making assumptive arguments as to why we can't have a commuter policy for all flights. What I'm saying is that instead of coming up with possible scenarios as to why it wont work here, lets come up with ideas that can work here.

Like I said, company codifying what they feel is best practice to commute into contractual language would be better than what we have now, which is nothing. Even if it means being in base 12 hours before show time. If that helps a pilot make a less stressful commute, its a win win.

Now, can we stop looking for reasons why we can't and instead look at ways we can? I'm not experienced enough in commuting into international flights to make a suggestion on that nor am I creative enough. But I do feel its unfair not to have a protected commuter language that's the same for domestic flights.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2584365)

I'm not really sure why you keep making assumptive arguments as to why we can't have a commuter policy for all flights. What I'm saying is that instead of coming up with possible scenarios as to why it wont work here, lets come up with ideas that can work here.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2584365)

Like I said, company codifying what they feel is best practice to commute into contractual language would be better than what we have now, which is nothing. Even if it means being in base 12 hours before show time. If that helps a pilot make a less stressful commute, its a win win.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2584365)

Now, can we stop looking for reasons why we can't and instead look at ways we can? I'm not experienced enough in commuting into international flights to make a suggestion on that nor am I creative enough. But I do feel its unfair not to have a protected commuter language that's the same for domestic flights.

Originally Posted by djslappy (Post 2584704)

Cost of living is substantially lower in the Philippines Vs China. Just curious how easy that commute would be.

Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 (Post 2584380)

So in essence you want to punish the domestic commuters who can commute in and operate out because reserve guys can’t? The company has a policy, it is in the contract, get to your base in time to check in for your trip or meet the 1 hour call out. If you don’t you lose the hours. If your commute plan sucked you lose the hours and get a nasty letter in your file. Do you really want to require the guy who drives in from Nashville to get there 8 hours prior?

The “Protected” provision isn’t screwing anyone, it does help a large percent of commuters. A 12 hour deviation type check in for a non deviation trip would not make anyone’s commute less stressful, just the opposite.

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2584481)

For one, I'm being realistic. I'm also attempting to address some of the comments made using the assumption that whatever reality some pax airline's commuter policy is based on automatically applies here.

Let's keep in mind that "what we have now" applies to a very large percentage of the trips our pilots fly. I'm not sure why you refer to it as "nothing". Almost anyone commuting to a trip flown in the lower 48 can do so protected by our current policy. So, I guess what we're talking about is trying to protect a commute to the international stuff, ANC or HNL and maybe a few random cats and dogs.

So, what do you suggest? Give us some scenarios and a corresponding commuter policy you think will apply.

Ok. Well I am experienced doing it. That's why I took the time to offer you specifics on the obstacles we face in commuting to international. If you lack the experience and knowledge to craft a policy, why are you continually suggesting a solution can be found? Isn't it possible that there is no policy allowing a commute directly into a long-haul flight that FedEx management would agree to because of the issues I brought up?

Unfair? Well, welcome to reality. That's life, as they say. International commute policy language that's the same for domestic flights isn't going to happen and I already explained why.

Maybe there's a solution involving a specific long haul policy. But trying to make a policy that can apply to both situations doesn't seem like a realistic goal.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2584823)

I wasn’t meaning to say it should change to 12 hours. I was trying to say that having that additional protection exclusively for international commuters would help those who chose to use that provision. And I only mentioned that because someone else suggested it.

Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 (Post 2584853)

I think I would rather risk losing the hours on a trip instead of changing it to require me to show up in Memphis at some specified time or manner other than show time.

Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 2580981)

Simple is relative apparently . I'm more a George Foreman Grill kind-o-guy. Set it and forget it!

Simple=Trip cancels you go home you get paid. No calls, no choices, or decisions.

Not picking a fit just a little ribbing

Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 (Post 2584853)

I think I would rather risk losing the hours on a trip instead of changing it to require me to show up in Memphis at some specified time or manner other than show time.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2587587)

Domestic, non-reserve commuters are not required to follow the current commuter protection with the 1:30/13:30. What I’m saying is that having something for those who choose to use the commuter protection is better than nothing.

Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 (Post 2587595)

Ok you convinced me, let’s negotiate a policy where if you take a FDX Jumpseat and are scheduled to arrive in base 8 hours prior to show for reserve you get to keep the hours in make up. The company should actually like it it is a productivity increaser and would probably result in less reserve utilization.



Just convince the MEC not to give anything up for it.

Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 (Post 2587595)

Ok you convinced me, let’s negotiate a policy where if you take a FDX Jumpseat and are scheduled to arrive in base 8 hours prior to show for reserve you get to keep the hours in make up. The company should actually like it it is a productivity increaser and would probably result in less reserve utilization.

Just convince the MEC not to give anything up for it.

Originally Posted by FlyHIGHgoFAST (Post 2587814)

Industry standard for being covered under a commuter clause is to have one commute flight (on any airline, not just your own airline) and a backup both prior to showtime. Doesn’t need to be complicated. Hell, some airlines only require 1 flight...

While we are at it, why is your sick bank docked for a fatigue call after the committee reviews it and seems it a legit fatigue call? I understand initially docking sick but how about a credit back after it is reviewed. If they created a schedule that caused you to not be fit for duty, shouldn’t you be paid and not have to get it from sick?

Sorry for thread drift...

Originally Posted by FlyHIGHgoFAST (Post 2587814)

Industry standard for being covered under a commuter clause is to have one commute flight (on any airline, not just your own airline) and a backup both prior to showtime. Doesn’t need to be complicated. Hell, some airlines only require 1 flight...

While we are at it, why is your sick bank docked for a fatigue call after the committee reviews it and seems it a legit fatigue call? I understand initially docking sick but how about a credit back after it is reviewed. If they created a schedule that caused you to not be fit for duty, shouldn’t you be paid and not have to get it from sick?

Sorry for thread drift...

Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox (Post 2587866)

I wish I never had mentioned the 13:30 provision of our jumpseat language. It has taken over this thread and overshadowed the really bad points about our contract that nobody speaks of.

FedEx's contract became the creme de la creme when the passenger airline contracts fell due to furlough. But now that the passenger industry has righted itself and consolidated into four very strong and profitable companies, the FedEx pilot contract (which never set the bar in airline contracts) will fall to the bottom of the pack. Considering the FedEx pilots ratified Family Guy's piece of crap C2015 which spans six years, the Fedex contract will fall further behind and the FedEx pilots will lose even more money due to inflation chomping away at the retirement.

Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 (Post 2587895)

And what is industry standard for you missing your trip. You don’t get paid, just like FDX. As I said earlier we already have industry standard, what we are arguing about is whether or not you keep your hours in your make up bank. Most people who work here consider commuting to work one of the best features of working here. One of my fears is in trying to make it a little better for some we screw it up for others.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 2588267)

But unlike FDX, the industry standard is to have a commuter policy to cover any duty period (trips, reserve, training, etc). Of course the standard for everyone is you don’t get paid if you don’t make your trip. The difference is there is no protection here unless you are commuting to a domestic trip only, nothing else. So if you miss one of those here, not only do you not get paid, you may be disciplined.

Originally Posted by rich007 (Post 2589371)

Could somebody please rename this thread:
"FDX Commuting Policy and How the Pilots Disagree on It!!"

Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 (Post 2588347)

Not if you have a reasonable commute plan. I know I have missed a couple of trips. So now you want a non discipline guarantee, instead of the current common sense policy. Think about what would happen if you got your way, everyone who didn’t comply with your non discipline program would probably receive mandatory discipline.

Originally Posted by Fdxlag2 (Post 2584380)

So in essence you want to punish the domestic commuters who can commute in and operate out because reserve guys can’t? .

Originally Posted by NoHaz (Post 2589478)

Where's it say you can't jumpseat into reserve duty?

Originally Posted by NoHaz (Post 2589478)

Where's it say you can't jumpseat into reserve duty?

Originally Posted by HIFLYR (Post 2589534)

ALPA contract enforcement told me that to be protected you had to be staging and you were only protected from discipline for a trip not reserve. If you read the contract all references are to a trip "that is why I called to confirm"