American or FedEx
09-19-2018 | 06:58 AM
#112
Generationally Damaged
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
From: Dynamically Leveled
757? Not sure. I'll say this. New hire in my former Crashpad on the 757...he chose not to bid off it in Feb when we had our system bid. He will be @ 15% in the 757 FO seat when the training letter is complete. That will be prior to 2 yrs on property for him. You read that correctly, FIFTEEN PERCENT. So day turns? I think he'll be doing whatever he wants.
09-19-2018 | 07:06 AM
#113
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 11
09-19-2018 | 10:01 AM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,258
Likes: 216
Depends completely on your seniority and aircraft.
FedEx management put out a statistic a while back that 60% of our flying was "night" and 40% "days". What does that mean?
Night flying refers to flying back and forth to one of our hubs for the night sort. The night sort usually occurs around 1am. The flights come in before that. You sit during the sort. Then you fly back to your destination afterwards.
Day flying refers to flying back and forth to one of our hubs for the day sort. The day sort is around 2pm.
777 flying is purely long haul international. Most flights are at least 7 hours long, meaning you'll transit time zones and see the sun go up and down .... or up and down again on your flights just like you would at DAL AAA UAL. The 777 does have some multiple leg trips in Europe and Asia where you will fly pairings like CDG-MUC-FRA. Short hops, but makes for a long day or night (especially for a long haul pilot).
MD-11 has some long haul international flights but that is dwindling down as we buy more 777s. The rest is hub turns.
Everything else flies hub turns. If you are junior, expect 757 and night hub turn flying unless you score a wide body during indoc.
There are exceptions but that's 90% of it.
FedEx management put out a statistic a while back that 60% of our flying was "night" and 40% "days". What does that mean?
Night flying refers to flying back and forth to one of our hubs for the night sort. The night sort usually occurs around 1am. The flights come in before that. You sit during the sort. Then you fly back to your destination afterwards.
Day flying refers to flying back and forth to one of our hubs for the day sort. The day sort is around 2pm.
777 flying is purely long haul international. Most flights are at least 7 hours long, meaning you'll transit time zones and see the sun go up and down .... or up and down again on your flights just like you would at DAL AAA UAL. The 777 does have some multiple leg trips in Europe and Asia where you will fly pairings like CDG-MUC-FRA. Short hops, but makes for a long day or night (especially for a long haul pilot).
MD-11 has some long haul international flights but that is dwindling down as we buy more 777s. The rest is hub turns.
Everything else flies hub turns. If you are junior, expect 757 and night hub turn flying unless you score a wide body during indoc.
There are exceptions but that's 90% of it.
With all that said, I won’t take FDX off the table yet. I think it’s an amazing company and definitely something to consider when the time comes.
09-19-2018 | 10:04 AM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,258
Likes: 216
09-19-2018 | 10:21 AM
#116
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 864
Likes: 50
From: B767
Night flying isn’t for everyone. I’ve said earlier in this thread that it took me a full year to really figure it out. Even then there are some hard nights and I’m in year 3 of 99.9% domestic hub turns. For me the first night of the week is usually the hardest because it is usually hard to make myself get a good nap at home before the first night of my trip.
One more thing to mention is that short flights go more senior. Going from MEM to the west coast (best layovers worst flights) is a lot harder than a 50 minute flight to IND but pay close to the same because of our rigs. Most pax red eyes are long flights (designed to take advantage of time zone changes) and duty days are probably fairly similar for cargo guys and pax guy’s going red eye transcon. The difference is that most cargo guys get 2-4 hours off in the hub and if you can nap in one of our sleep rooms it’s a game changer.
Keep in mind most of these are sort of week on / week off schedule. I don’t normally have any problems switching back to “normal” hours at home. Keys include getting some sun and a workout. Makes it much easier.
I am in no way trying to minimize the toll that night flying and circadian rhythms disruptions have on the body. The pain can be very real. I would add that when you can hold day flying at Purple the weeks are generally consistent. You fly to the same city all week long. Read into that waking up at the same time every morning. You can establish routine that is really only avail at Purple if you so choose. Even at the pax day time you deal with circadian rhythm interruptions. Get in late, leave midday, get in late, shorter layover, leave mid morning, get in early, leave at crack of dawn. None of us work 9-5 unless you get into the management side of the house.
UA
09-19-2018 | 10:32 AM
#117
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: 777
Lets see, depart, level off, trade off (sleep) all the way to destination.
Get to destination, sleep more.
Get up, workout, eat, call the family then sleep more.
No disrespect but if you can't learn to sleep sometimes three times a day then maybe you should choose a pax airline.
09-19-2018 | 11:16 AM
#118
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: MD-11/C-17
That said, I’m usually always awarded a line with mostly night flying... I just keep an eye on open time and swap to the dayside when opportunities arise.
09-19-2018 | 12:57 PM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Quals: AF AD to AF Reserve transition a few years ago in a flying capacity. 2 yrs on property with FDX.
Mil duty: With 10 years to go on the mil side, you may end up not wanting to fly (deploy) for your remaining decade. I'm not saying that living in some obscure location requiring a double commute is smart, don't get me wrong. I'm saying that once you begin to shed the AF's bull**** and have any airline job in your life, perspective may radically change. When you hear about guys wanting to go to a minimum administrative capacity on the mil side and not fly the plane that got them the ticket to the airline dance, it's not crazy. Family time with kids growing up is immeasurably valuable, and that was part of my calculus to exit the Active Duty thrash. You may end up choosing to transition to a staff job etc to continue to fully shed the military's dominance in your family's life.
I love my Reserve unit. They fed my family during my transition and kept me current and able to apply to major airlines. I still enjoy going there to hang with the bros. But the continued deployment impact when I have an airline in my life is staggering. There are many ways to smartly balance all 3 bosses (family plus 2 jobs), and my experience is the mil side quickly becomes a distant 3rd priority.
Another observation at my unit: Cargo airline dudes don't really end up staying one minute past 20 yrs of service, whether that's in a flying capacity or admin. Pax airline guys tend to stay a bit longer. That's not a knock on cargo v pax, just to say the cargo dudes scheduling / pay as (normally) WB airline guys make the decision a no brainer. I also realize there are mil pilots bearing the scars of the Post 9/11 furlough years and are reticent to go to one job. I'm "lucky" that I was on AD during that time deploying my little brains out with a steady paycheck, so in some ways, I can't relate to that fear of furlough. But on the other side of that argument, these older guys who flew military in the 1990s cannot relate to the incessant deployment schedule we've been under since 2001. They literally have no idea. It's not their fault, but it was different eras of military service.
My entire point of sharing that...do what you think is best for your family now, realizing that might change in a year or two. You're already flexible coming off AD, and when YOU choose the next few steps for your family, it's a wonderful feeling to know that you are in the driver's seat, not some faceless AFPC bot who could give a ****.
AA v FDX: Both good deals. I personally would not have survived at a pax carrier. Just as I know that exclusive night flying at cargo outfits is greatly amplified, as is the negative pax interactions on a daily basis. My personal feeling is that it only takes one uppity entitled pax with a cellphone video to make me infamous...I want no part of that. The incognito business casual I get to wear when I'm in the terminal is a blessing. I don't have the patience to placate the the flying public what with their hashtags and fancy ideas. FDXe public's wonderful isolation from the dumbass public has continued to feed my inherent antisocial tendencies. I'll be done burying the schoolbus in my backyard for my escape room next month.
The ground truth at FDX is you will be night flying, especially in the beginning. The other half of that truth...you can infinitely change your schedule (without mil leave) and change nights to days. If you're lazy and just accept what your seniority yields, then yes, you can expect to fly nights for a few years. I don't know many people that settle for that fate. I've learned from the guys sitting next to me how to wheel / deal, and I've had a spectacular run with trips. In two years, I've sat less than one consecutive month of reserve. I fly (maybe) one night flight a month, just to make my monthly pay work out. But if it's a stinker, I won't even do that. At FDX, I do not prefer to use mil leave to adjust my airline schedule, as this is exchanging one work day for another. I prefer to trip trade my way to victory, and that can be done in myriad ways, depending on what you like.
Memphis: I speak only for myself. I will never move there, I will never raise my children there. I'm glad it works for some. It's an absolute no-go for me. Good thing that FDX lines are built with deadheads...but the most important foot stomper is the jumpseat policy. We don't play that bull**** seniority game where you can be ejected at the last second and have to roll with plan 12 to get to work. You book the JS, you have the JS, with very few exceptions like an LCA taking priority. My JS to work is a zero stress nap in jeans and tennis shoes. I hear my mil counterparts flying pax talking about how early in the morning they rise to make to the terminal to catch the first of 3 options to work...makes me shudder. Yet I'm the one who has the bad deal flying nights? Hmmm...
Sidenote: The internet is a wonderful and horrible place. The amount of mudslinging, name calling, and off topic garbage in this thread sucks. Have fun sifting through all the irrelevant name calling and tribal drum beating...there are a few nuggets actually worth reading in here.
Mil duty: With 10 years to go on the mil side, you may end up not wanting to fly (deploy) for your remaining decade. I'm not saying that living in some obscure location requiring a double commute is smart, don't get me wrong. I'm saying that once you begin to shed the AF's bull**** and have any airline job in your life, perspective may radically change. When you hear about guys wanting to go to a minimum administrative capacity on the mil side and not fly the plane that got them the ticket to the airline dance, it's not crazy. Family time with kids growing up is immeasurably valuable, and that was part of my calculus to exit the Active Duty thrash. You may end up choosing to transition to a staff job etc to continue to fully shed the military's dominance in your family's life.
I love my Reserve unit. They fed my family during my transition and kept me current and able to apply to major airlines. I still enjoy going there to hang with the bros. But the continued deployment impact when I have an airline in my life is staggering. There are many ways to smartly balance all 3 bosses (family plus 2 jobs), and my experience is the mil side quickly becomes a distant 3rd priority.
Another observation at my unit: Cargo airline dudes don't really end up staying one minute past 20 yrs of service, whether that's in a flying capacity or admin. Pax airline guys tend to stay a bit longer. That's not a knock on cargo v pax, just to say the cargo dudes scheduling / pay as (normally) WB airline guys make the decision a no brainer. I also realize there are mil pilots bearing the scars of the Post 9/11 furlough years and are reticent to go to one job. I'm "lucky" that I was on AD during that time deploying my little brains out with a steady paycheck, so in some ways, I can't relate to that fear of furlough. But on the other side of that argument, these older guys who flew military in the 1990s cannot relate to the incessant deployment schedule we've been under since 2001. They literally have no idea. It's not their fault, but it was different eras of military service.
My entire point of sharing that...do what you think is best for your family now, realizing that might change in a year or two. You're already flexible coming off AD, and when YOU choose the next few steps for your family, it's a wonderful feeling to know that you are in the driver's seat, not some faceless AFPC bot who could give a ****.
AA v FDX: Both good deals. I personally would not have survived at a pax carrier. Just as I know that exclusive night flying at cargo outfits is greatly amplified, as is the negative pax interactions on a daily basis. My personal feeling is that it only takes one uppity entitled pax with a cellphone video to make me infamous...I want no part of that. The incognito business casual I get to wear when I'm in the terminal is a blessing. I don't have the patience to placate the the flying public what with their hashtags and fancy ideas. FDXe public's wonderful isolation from the dumbass public has continued to feed my inherent antisocial tendencies. I'll be done burying the schoolbus in my backyard for my escape room next month.
The ground truth at FDX is you will be night flying, especially in the beginning. The other half of that truth...you can infinitely change your schedule (without mil leave) and change nights to days. If you're lazy and just accept what your seniority yields, then yes, you can expect to fly nights for a few years. I don't know many people that settle for that fate. I've learned from the guys sitting next to me how to wheel / deal, and I've had a spectacular run with trips. In two years, I've sat less than one consecutive month of reserve. I fly (maybe) one night flight a month, just to make my monthly pay work out. But if it's a stinker, I won't even do that. At FDX, I do not prefer to use mil leave to adjust my airline schedule, as this is exchanging one work day for another. I prefer to trip trade my way to victory, and that can be done in myriad ways, depending on what you like.
Memphis: I speak only for myself. I will never move there, I will never raise my children there. I'm glad it works for some. It's an absolute no-go for me. Good thing that FDX lines are built with deadheads...but the most important foot stomper is the jumpseat policy. We don't play that bull**** seniority game where you can be ejected at the last second and have to roll with plan 12 to get to work. You book the JS, you have the JS, with very few exceptions like an LCA taking priority. My JS to work is a zero stress nap in jeans and tennis shoes. I hear my mil counterparts flying pax talking about how early in the morning they rise to make to the terminal to catch the first of 3 options to work...makes me shudder. Yet I'm the one who has the bad deal flying nights? Hmmm...
Sidenote: The internet is a wonderful and horrible place. The amount of mudslinging, name calling, and off topic garbage in this thread sucks. Have fun sifting through all the irrelevant name calling and tribal drum beating...there are a few nuggets actually worth reading in here.
To add one thing, Memphis isn’t THAT bad.
09-19-2018 | 01:00 PM
#120
Fill'er Up Again
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 1
From: Scarebus Captain
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