American DC plan or FedEx A plan DC plan mix
09-19-2018, 01:20 PM
#11
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Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by Out West
Disclaimer - I’m still in the midst of multiple days of trudging through hours of videos and reading to try and understand this as a new guy.
One thing that I can’t get past is the high 5/FAE thing and getting rid of the only known quantity.
I don’t think I’m alone in that probably the biggest reasons I chose FedEx is the flexibility and the pension. I’m happy for DAL and the profit sharing, but it isn’t a pension. Pay is neat, but also not at the top any longer. I know - completely different discussion.
If we lose the FAE and go to a career average, aren’t there layers of second and third order negative effects? Let alone giving up a guaranteed pension that I can count on.
It’s a game changer that wouldn’t be worth double the hourly rate in my opinion.
What am I missing?
One thing that I can’t get past is the high 5/FAE thing and getting rid of the only known quantity.
I don’t think I’m alone in that probably the biggest reasons I chose FedEx is the flexibility and the pension. I’m happy for DAL and the profit sharing, but it isn’t a pension. Pay is neat, but also not at the top any longer. I know - completely different discussion.
If we lose the FAE and go to a career average, aren’t there layers of second and third order negative effects? Let alone giving up a guaranteed pension that I can count on.
It’s a game changer that wouldn’t be worth double the hourly rate in my opinion.
What am I missing?
09-19-2018, 02:32 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 554
Originally Posted by kronan
...
And the ONLY people who make Pensions Retroactive are the Govt & FedEx Alpa.
Sorry to burst the bubble for all those within 10's years of retirement, but a big increase in the High 5 Calc just won't be a lookback calculation. My expectation is it would be phased in over the 5 years following CBA 202X Ratification.
....
And the ONLY people who make Pensions Retroactive are the Govt & FedEx Alpa.
Sorry to burst the bubble for all those within 10's years of retirement, but a big increase in the High 5 Calc just won't be a lookback calculation. My expectation is it would be phased in over the 5 years following CBA 202X Ratification.
....
Stop with the expectations and beliefs and ask questions!!!!! This is why we get burned in contract language!
Have you asked PM? Or is no retro just your "expectation"?
I specifically asked during a face to face meeting with PM if Alpa intends to apply the VBP retroactively? It was a very unambiguous question.
Flying Boxes: "Is Alpa planning to negotiate the VBP to be applied retroactively to those with over 25 years of service?"
PM: "Yes."
The most important thing about this is not whether it is retro or not! The question is why has Alpa failed to inform us exactly what the plan is! How can they do a pilot survey to determine if pilots approve this when they have not fully disclosed what they are trying to do? This is a TRUST issue!
09-19-2018, 02:53 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Crewmember
Posts: 1,376
Originally Posted by pinseeker
The Union will tell us what they think they negotiated and that any vague language is in our favor. As soon as the ink dries, the company will show us what we really signed up for and will squeeze every last drop of blood they can out of that rock solid VB plan.
Lie flat seats.
Vote no.
Our union lawyers couldn't write good contract language to save their own lives.
09-20-2018, 07:59 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 795
Originally Posted by MEMFO4Ever
And your solution is?
I.e. lay flat seats, known reserve days, bid for training, etc.
UA
09-20-2018, 11:42 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
Originally Posted by MEMFO4Ever
And your solution is?
09-20-2018, 11:54 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Crewmember
Posts: 1,376
Originally Posted by MEMFO4Ever
And your solution is?
1) A national war chest would be available to us for contract negotiations.
Hmmm....So, how'd that work out for us? "Our" union leadership didn't want to use it, and settled for a below average, messed up, contract.
2) We would have better lawyers to scrub the contract.
Hmmm... I was told we have the same lawyers on staff as the FPA days, and they have proved, over and over, that they can't "tighten up the language" as promised by our union.
If these same lawyers can't get lie flat seats right, give away hotels in lieu of deadheads, and force reserve guys into the PBS VTO system, I don't want them anywhere near my retirement plan.
We had leverage last time around. They were cancelling 10 flights a day near the end. We failed to use it. The company always delays 2 years past the amendable date and runs us out of money. The union needs to stop wasting our money on zoo parties, and other stupid stuff and operate more frugally or vote in a contract negotiating assessment.
Higher B fund and cash over cap would help the retirement problem, but don't give away a sure thing for a pipe dream that is only guaranteed to help the "I've got mine (already) and want more" crowd.
If this passes, everyone will bid seats at 100%, or at least most will. Open time will be gone in a flash, and we will work ourselves to death chasing a good retirement that we "might" get, if our retirement date coincides with a good stock market. Think about that. You can't pick your retirement date if you plan to work to 65. If the market is down starting at say, when you turn 63, and stays down, your little "pancakes" aren't worth squat, and the company and the union won't care in the least.
09-20-2018, 01:08 PM
#19
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Excessed WB Capt.
Posts: 1,061
Our old pre contract retirement replaced a way higher percentage of our income than our current retirement does. At one time our A-plan had a COLA and our LTD plan didn’t cost 3-7k a year in premiums. This whole negotiating contracts isn’t our cup of tea.
Another pro ALPA point over FPA was they had better assets to cost out contract changes while we were at negotiating table to more quickly realize good from bad and when the company negotiators were FOS.
Another pro ALPA point over FPA was they had better assets to cost out contract changes while we were at negotiating table to more quickly realize good from bad and when the company negotiators were FOS.
09-20-2018, 01:19 PM
#20
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 767 CA
Posts: 1,876
Originally Posted by UnusualAttitude
I would also develop within the P2P ranks a group of pilots who work with the attorneys to stress test all proposed contractual language. It’s time to start reading this language as plain English instead of back room agreements of intention.
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