StarClipper

Really? The floor that was yet to be negotiated? It’s ok I’ll take my chances with what we currently have.

JB130

Yes, quite aware but our short union history has demonstrated time and time again an inability to write ironclad contractual language that actually delivers our desired intent and/or forces compliance by the Company. Our losses on intent versus actuality are numerous. This forum is full of examples so I won't cite them again. I can be miffed at losing first class seats but the adjective to describe my loss of an expected floor in my retirement would be far more harsh than miffed....and far more consequential. Put another way, I don't trust our guys, be they lawyers in Virginia or Kirby Parkway or well-intentioned volunteers and negotiators, to deliver a guarantee that's guaranteed.

Again, no pilot retiree in the history of our A Plan has EVER missed a retirement check or had to settle for anything less than the full amount.

NotMrNiceGuy

They don’t care what the union “says”. They just think what the union “says” are lies.

golfandfly

I don’t think the union lies, but they are often inept (see China OIM). I have no faith they can negotiate a revolutionary retirement plan that isn’t full of gray areas. I’ll pass on the Variable scheme.

USMCFDX

The union thought the very first FDA LOA was a good deal and "it will go senior" - well it was not so good, went junior, and was so crappy the company come back and added more. Professional pilots are not professional negotiators.

Noworkallplay

"Oh in this market the VB Pension would not last." Absolutely False. This was debunked during the initial meetings on this plan. I actually went to 2 of them. How many did the complainers go to? They ran a modeled simulation of the 3 worst periods in the market the worst being the 3 years in the early 70's. It survived just fine. Not only that they explained the stabilization features to make sure this did stay funded even in a bad market out of the gate. Bunch of agenda pushing blow hards saying completely none factual things. We as a group have chastised the union for not "hiring outside attorneys and resources". In this case they did and some of our pilots still think they are smarter then people who do this for a living. Half of our pilots think they can be doctors, attorneys, engineers better than those who do it every day for a living. This is like a Dr. with a PPL coming onto your flight deck and coaching you on how to fly your airplane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_K3B_Xbws

NotMrNiceGuy

The last DB retirement section from 1999 was not written by pilots and neither will this one be. Actual financial professionals designed this and it’s already in use by other companies. The specifics will be negotiated by finance professionals.

It’s protected by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC). Can’t be fully lost due to BK.

The Union has already stated that no one will receive less than what they would have received under the current A plan. People that may have been “left behind” will be plussed up.

The current dip has already been planned for through a stabilization reserve or floor plan. As previously mentioned, the Cheiron looked at every time period between 1929 and 2018. At no point did the VBD play second fiddle to our current A plan.

golfandfly

How many people are in one of these plans? Are they all that stupid of are we just that smart?

golfandfly

They also said something about lay flat seats...

StarClipper

The union have yet to answer my simple question about guys who could go out on LTD and can return, get their high 5 and still walk away with the A Plan. How will that be addressed in the VB Plan?