PurpleToolBox

Respectfully, you are quite literally the most ignorant person, yes man, military only experienced pilot I've ever met. Worse, I know you, you should know me by now, we have several military peers, but our paths never crossed in the military that I can recall.

I don't give a flip how many deals the company and the union have gone back and forth on. I .. we ... are talking about the first deal sent to the FEDEX PILOTS. Let's have some unity for God's sake!

YES !!! It would be a good thing. The pilots would be unanimous in voicing their opinion to both the union and the company. We have never been directly polled on the PSPP versus our existing Defined Benefit Plan. I've attended nearly every single event possible the union has had since the inception of the "Variable Annuity" plan came into play and at every event I've been to/logged in for, the FedEx pilots in attendance were very skeptical or against it completely.

YES !!! It was a very good thing. They kept their profit sharing, ended up negotiating much higher pay rates (higher than ours), increased their defined contribution and kept the ability to bid with Check Airman so as to get dropped from their schedule. But they did have to start validating their sick time with doctor's notes (sounds familiar).

Oh, but you say their total compensation is much less than ours. Are you so sure? There's a lot of little bennies in the Delta Pilots contract that we don't have. But YOU WOULDN'T KNOW ... Because you aren't a nerd Never Ever Real Delta (a shout out to my bros who know) and your buddy at Delta who feeds you information has been wrong a couple of times on Delta's contract.

Just think differences in sitting reserve at each company ... HUGE. The travel benefits. Imagine being able to take your entire family (wife, kids) (first class/business class if available) to any Delta destination up to six times a year on S2 priority passes. Unlimited S3 passes (wife, kids, parents) (if there's a seat available, you're going). HUGE

Oh, but we don't have to deal with flight attendants and passengers blah blah blah (ok, so let's negotiate down our job). (rolls eyes)

I am literally tired of going round and round with you. It is as if you work for management when you discuss the contract here at FedEx.

kronan

And yet, here you are PurpleToolBox, despite the manifest superiority of Delta in all ways.

No-I can't imagine the ability to take my family anywhere on Pass travel. Instead, I've been forced to take my family to Hawaii, Montana, Florida, Washington DC, Cabo on Frequent Flyer miles. I've been forced to use Frequent Flyer miles to send friends to California, twice, while they were furloughed. Family friends with Delta Travel perks to visit us as well as return home when there just weren't any seats. But hey, what can you expect when you're traveling in that peak Martin Luther King timeframe.

In 2016, Delta compared career's with UPS. Why was that? Why didn't they use a fellow ALPA airline for a career comparison? And in that video, Delta's MEC said that the career earnings\retirement for a newhire were comparable. All it would take would be an immediate 18% raise, with 4.39% raises in 2017 & 18. That and for profit sharing to continue at the same relative level into the future and for people to actually Save their profit sharing checks.
Being a NERD, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Delta's TA achieve 18%, then 3%+3%?

And being a NERD, enlighten me as to the percentage of Delta's Captains that earn top dollar? APC says there are 15 aircraft at the $354 level. 42 A330's at the $334 level. 27 767's at the $296 level. 45 B717s at the $256 level. 112 Baby buses at the $274 level. 208 737's at the $284\6 level.


As to the First Offer. Did you know FedEx pilots have actually rejected a TA? UPS pilots too. Granted it was in the late 90s. What's also true is that since then UPS has ratified every First Offer.
What's also true is that pretty much every Major Airline has ratified a non-concessionary TA.

Another inconvenient historical fact. The last time a major airline's pilots struck it was kiboshed by Pres Clinton.

Spend some time actually reading the RLA.

Or maybe just consider that following UPS Strike vote in 2015 that UPS management said it was just posturing. Stike vote results came in October 2015, and UPS reached a TA June 30th, 2016.

There are two, great things we have going for us this time. First, is that UPS signed their bridge TA and raised the bar.
2nd, that management reportedly wants a deal by next summer. To me, that kind means our leverage is similar to what Delta had in 2015...when Delta wanted a deal.

So, if a PSPP style modification is negotiated...and if 99% of FedEx Pilots vote against it, then we might still have a new TA to vote on next year, or early 2023 at the latest. (yes, I really think it's possible that if FedEx wants a new CBA in 2022 that we could negotiate two CBAs in 2022...assuming the May of next year rumor is actually what FedEx management hopes to see)

FXLAX

Fleet composition is NOT contractual and therefore should be vehemently rejected as point of comparison with other contracts. Until we can negotiate with management the makeup of our our fleet, this discussion should be in any other context other than contractual earnings. The only other possible explanation for bringing this up when comparing contracts and earnings is if you are trying to make management’s argument against us.

Noworkallplay

Once again you fail to look at the whole package. How much WB international flying JV agreements have they allowed over the past 10 years? I came from that world. You forget about our total retirement package. Much superior. You forget about our DSA spillover. Many don’t have this including Delta. You forget about our scope which has kept much more of our business being done by FedEx pilots and not a code share or regional feed. You forget about vacation and hard line biding which allows conflicting and it bennies. You forget about our system form with deadheads on trips which allows deviation and numerous extra paid days at home.

If the grass is so much greener then GTFO and stop acting like everyone has it so much better.

StarClipper

Really Dude? You are no different than guys who say you’re not a FedEx pilot when you have a different opinion than them. So because he compare our contract to other and pointed out areas which need improvement, you’re telling him to GTFO? You sound like much of the Union folks I’ve spoken to.

Noworkallplay

Well I cant speak for the Union folks but my comment was in regards to his current post and his post history. Constantly acts as if everyone else has it better. Compares small pieces and fails to point out the whole picture. I have talked with my rep and they have always been pleasant. This doesn’t mean they always agree with me. Thats human nature. I may have had a bit of emotion with the GTFO comment and for that I will apologize.

I am just tired of hearing these one way comparisons and not looking at the numerous things we have that “they” don't. I came from another major and to say we have a far superior CBA is an understatement. Our hourly rates need increased, but thats natural in pattern bargaining. Retirement increase is a must also.

StarClipper

Pointing out the flaws in our contract and the areas which need improvement doesn’t mean we think it’s better elsewhere. All that’s being said is it can and should be better.

BrianH

I think some may be off course. This thread was about the PUB call on the 18th. So little was talked about and even less is being addressed.

How about people discuss questions they would like the MEC chairman and NC chairman to answer. There will be more calls. Let's stay focused on the issues here please.

I would like to ask more questions. One will be about the secondary line generator and how six years after contract '15, we still don't have the "MEC chairman approved" system in place. Are we going to allow another contract to be TA'd without this fix for so many pilots.




Also, no PM, no call, no number.

StarClipper

Brian you can PM me if you’d like, I’ve been asking the same questions over and over and no straight answer. With that said I’m already a NO vote.

PurpleToolBox

While YOU may have been able to obtain a lot of points, that's not available to all FedEx pilots. And you still don't earn enough to equal the travel benefit they receive. But I'm happy you had the points for when you were forced to make travel plans for others. (rolls eyes)

You're proving my point. Because they felt their total compensation was higher than every other ALPA airline so they used UPS for a comparison (something to achieve). And they did quite well and overshot FedEx's 2015 contract payrates which were industry leading all for a couple of weeks.

How do I know I'm right? With our own union's Contract Comparison Document (hint: ... they took down the following pages ... or they're not working on the website ... hmm I wonder why?) Glad I always save everything.

Looking at 15-year Narrowbody Captain Pay (Pay and Defined Contribution), they compared our 757 Captains to 737s at UAL/AA/DAL even though they have 757s. Why? Probably because they didn't want to show the disparity by how industry lagging our 757 Captains pay really is. Every other airline earns more.

Second, when they compared our 15-year Widebody Captain pay, they compared FedEx's pay to DAL's 767-200/300 (which is weird because DAL doesn't have -200s) and UAL's 757/767. FedEx did edge out DAL/UAL because the smallest "widebody" on the scale was used for comparison.

Lastly they compare 777 Pay. FedEx came in last place. So our own union is telling us that our pay and defined contributions are less than majors and UPS. BUT, the union didn't include Profit Sharing! So when the passenger airlines get back to big profits and they will soon as most of them were cash positive as of May 2021, their pilots will soon be getting profit sharing again.

And might I remind you, the profit sharing is pensionable. And I know you've argued before that it wasn't. It is and our own union Contract Comparison document says so.

Irrelevant. As I said above our own union documents show how our pay is lagging and that doesn't include PS.

Good. Hopefully we will do it again soon.

That's because their TAs were very good TAs which passed with high 90 percentage rates. I guess their NC is better? IDK

Not when the times were good. Only when the industry was in a down fall. And it wasn't like FedEx ratified a TA which set the bar. FedEx pilots have never done that. They only managed to have a good contract when the others collapsed into bankruptcy.

Ok, so let's just give up. No need to unify and let our voices be heard. No need to let the airline, our investors and customers know we want a strike vote.

Yes, other airlines managed to set the bar .... twice now for UPS during our long 205 contract. This is probably the smartest thing you've said. If it is true that management wants a deal soon, it means they don't want the uncertainty with our contract -- there's bigger things coming.

If we get a PSPP TA and vote it down, I am willing to wait for a contract that enhances our defined benefit. Because of our demanding schedules, I think we should overwhelmingly have industry leading pay but we don't right now. It's time to fix that. It's time to stand behind our union and our NC. It's time to unify and stand firm. If we don't get that, it's time we vote it down.