If history is a guide, pension plans cannot be counted on… I don’t understand why you guys feel like it’s a risk off retirement strategy, seems super risky to me. Again, I’m just learning about you system, maybe I’m missing something

 

What are the risks to the current pension?

 

This chart lays out the numerous risks of a pension plan in a nice easy manner to read. Enjoy


https://www.iapf.ie/_files/list/PensionFundRisk.pdf

 

Can you negotiating gurus at least try to call your reps and get some accurate info. If you did that you would be told that the "pancake plan" died in 2018. It's not happening. So if you hear someone talking about "pancakes" they are either uninformed or they are trying to use that old, outdated, no longer valid term to create division in our ranks. You'd also get told that the NC is working to improve our pension (A-plan) with all the same protections as our current DC plan. Or you could just keep spouting half-truths and rumors that have no basis in fact because they help further whatever agenda you're pushing here. Call your reps - get info from a valid source and stop the madness.

As far as the genius, self-proclaimed negotiating experts who are going to turn down the first TA just because............ If it doesn't meet your personal requirements, by all means, vote "no". But if you vote "no" out of principle because it's the "first offer" then you're an idiot. The NC is passing full language proposals section by section. That means there are multiple passes on each section before that particular section is TA'd. A section might be passed 5, 10 times or even more before it's agreed on. So, if you think you're voting down the company's "first offer" when you vote down a TA, then you're a complete moron, don't understand the bargaining process and probably shouldn't have the ability to vote. Call your rep. Seek accurate information.

Continue with your well thought out and highly informed discussions.

 

congrats on the CJO

 

Thanks for putting the entirety of APC in its place.

I don't think most of us on here think that a TA contains the company's "first offer". I also don't think 5500 people calling their reps individually is the optimum way to disseminate accurate information. I think the MEC could do a better job in that area. Much of the mindset that was formed regarding the pension is a result of the vague and manipulative wording that the contract surveys were built on. At no time did the MEC ask "would you like the NC to attempt to improve the A plan" or any other of the supporting questions that would naturally go along with that - you know, something that would indicate that we're trying to improve the A plan.

To reiterate, I have no doubt that the MEC is aware that there are people harboring considerable doubt as to the direction we're headed on retirement. Some proactive communication on their part would certainly be the efficient move. Why can't the membership see the retirement openers after they're on the table? Once the company has seen it, what's the secret?

I don't want a plan with "the same protections".

I want a higher FAE cap on the current plan - period.

I don't want to work more for more years and have the NC tell me that's an improvement to my retirement. I can work more now and save the freaking money - but that's not on my to-do list.

 

Don't know what's gonna come with the TA, but I trust the NC. If it's a retirement plan with the same protections as we have now that generates a higher benefit, why would anyone care how the sausage is made? But, maybe it'll be our current plan with a higher FAE cap. Either way, I trust the NC to deliver. They don't negotiate in public. Pass 1 isn't the same as pass 5 or 7 and there's no benefit to informing the entire populace of our group on a proposal that hasn't been finalized. All that does is create expectations that may not be realistic and eventually undermine the NC efforts. We don't need 5700 opinions on social media to embolden the company to stand their ground on one offer or another that haven't even been hashed out by both sides. Did you know the specific details of the 2015 purple or orange heath plans before they were negotiated and put into a TA out for a vote? No - you didn't. It's no different with retirement. Now is the time to trust and support your NC and stop undercutting them publicly with what you will or will not vote for when nothing has been finalized. All you do with that rhetoric is reduce their ability to get us what we deserve.

As to the last comment. Call your rep. There is no plan being proposed to make you work more years for your retirement. Or keep spewing your BS and showing us all how uninformed your are.

 

Wow, where to start. First, I have talked to my block rep. I have also talked to other block reps. In all, I have talked to the majority of block reps, and not one of them has said that the PSPP (pancake plan) is dead. In fact, they have all said or indicated that the PSPP is an option, but we will have to wait to see what the NC comes up with. If it is dead, and the MEC knows that many are against that plan, why won't they just come out and say that it is dead?

So, what plan has the same protections as our DB plan, but isn't our DB plan? In your earlier post you said the same protections as our DC plan, but now say DB plan, so I guess that was a typo. How is it going to have all of the same protections of our DB plan, but provide a higher benefit? If the MEC simply wants to raise the FAE, why not say it. They said they want to raise hourly rate to industry leading. They didn't say that they wanted to increase yearly compensation, which would be similar to saying improve retirement. They could have already improved yearly compensation by removing the 40% vacation sellback limit as stated by the NC. Instead of taking your vacation, make more money and sell it all back, but who cares how the sausage is made?

You should care how the sausage is made. I want pork sausage. If I don't know how it is made, then what's keeping it from being filled with ground cat and rat sh**?

Which block rep told you that the PSPP was dead? Seems to me that you are the one spreading disinformation.

 

I have been quiet on this but simply calling it another name does change the mechanism of how it operates!

 

Died is 2018? Bull _hit. We still have those pancake fools on retainer. The plan is alive and well. Call your rep and they will say - we are negotiating for improvements and nothing more will be said to you.