Negotiations
02-05-2022, 12:32 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Negotiations
Originally Posted by opt0712
Had a class date with Delta, and they provided new hires with hotels. Not at ANY point did I care about having a hotel or that their training pay was just slightly higher. What mattered was the long game, seat progression, wide body pay for almost the entirety of my career, line bidding, and of course our vacation.
They provide new hires with hotels now? And training pay is just something here. Everywhere else you are on first year pay.
My contention doesn’t change your personal choice of coming here, as you put value in different things than others might. But my contention would benefit this entire pilot group despite pilots like you who aren’t crazy when making these decisions.
The broader point is this: what does management want? Whatever it is, it’s leverage. If it’s first year pay and hotels, then great, if not, then let’s move on. It’s not personal, it’s business.
Originally Posted by Merle Haggard
15th year pay happens over and over and over.
First year pay happens once.
You tell me then where the greater value lies.
Let's not be morons here.
First year pay happens once.
You tell me then where the greater value lies.
Let's not be morons here.
Fifteen year pay rate is a disgrace! Why should we wait an extra three years to get to top rate? Make 15 yr rate the new 12, then the 14 the new 11 and so forth as a starting point, then negotiate from there.
02-05-2022, 03:28 PM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,109
Originally Posted by FXLAX
They provide new hires with hotels now? And training pay is just something here. Everywhere else you are on first year pay.
My contention doesn’t change your personal choice of coming here, as you put value in different things than others might. But my contention would benefit this entire pilot group despite pilots like you who aren’t crazy when making these decisions.
The broader point is this: what does management want? Whatever it is, it’s leverage. If it’s first year pay and hotels, then great, if not, then let’s move on. It’s not personal, it’s business.
Fifteen year pay rate is a disgrace! Why should we wait an extra three years to get to top rate? Make 15 yr rate the new 12, then the 14 the new 11 and so forth as a starting point, then negotiate from there.
My contention doesn’t change your personal choice of coming here, as you put value in different things than others might. But my contention would benefit this entire pilot group despite pilots like you who aren’t crazy when making these decisions.
The broader point is this: what does management want? Whatever it is, it’s leverage. If it’s first year pay and hotels, then great, if not, then let’s move on. It’s not personal, it’s business.
Fifteen year pay rate is a disgrace! Why should we wait an extra three years to get to top rate? Make 15 yr rate the new 12, then the 14 the new 11 and so forth as a starting point, then negotiate from there.
02-05-2022, 05:50 PM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Originally Posted by Tuck
There is zero value to the GROUP by increasing new hire pay or getting new hires hotels. That is for recruitment only. We negotiate for those on the property - not for the guys that retired 5 years ago and not for the guys that will be here in 5 years.
I don’t disagree.
02-05-2022, 09:36 PM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by Tuck
There is zero value to the GROUP by increasing new hire pay or getting new hires hotels. That is for recruitment only. We negotiate for those on the property - not for the guys that retired 5 years ago and not for the guys that will be here in 5 years.
02-06-2022, 08:12 AM
#115
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 831
Originally Posted by Jamo
Totally disagree. Either we are all in this together or we are independent contractors. We can’t have it both ways. I’m far from a new hire but if they don’t get an improvement, I’m a ‘No’ vote. Too many crusty s at our company vote purely for their own interests. Those ret…s don’t understand what unity is about. Don’t be mad when they (New hires) vote out your A plan for the variable plan.
I am neither a new-hire, nor am I anywhere near retirement.
Again:
15th year pay happens over and over and over (including for most every new-hire).
First year pay happens once.
02-07-2022, 04:04 PM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Fetal in the hub
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by Merle Haggard
Unless you're talking about one-time retirement enhancements that only apply to a specific group, everything that gets added in negotiations should ultimately benefit all of us. Adding things that are a one-time benefit for new-hires is actually the only way to likely carve out a group and have nobody currently on the list ever see any benefit. It's just fact.
I am neither a new-hire, nor am I anywhere near retirement.
Again:
15th year pay happens over and over and over (including for most every new-hire).
First year pay happens once.
I am neither a new-hire, nor am I anywhere near retirement.
Again:
15th year pay happens over and over and over (including for most every new-hire).
First year pay happens once.
The rest of you do whatever you like. They know just what levers to pull to get that 57%
02-07-2022, 05:14 PM
#117
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 831
Originally Posted by Shaman
Don't give a @$% how high they make 15 year pay wrong is wrong and I aint cosigning anything just cause something else benefits me more.
02-07-2022, 07:56 PM
#118
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Jamo
Totally disagree. Either we are all in this together or we are independent contractors. We can’t have it both ways. I’m far from a new hire but if they don’t get an improvement, I’m a ‘No’ vote. Too many crusty s at our company vote purely for their own interests. Those ret…s don’t understand what unity is about. Don’t be mad when they (New hires) vote out your A plan for the variable plan.
02-07-2022, 08:01 PM
#119
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Merle Haggard
One benefits some, the other benefits EVERYONE. If we don't hire for years, which has happened many times, we will have wasted our time and capital negotiating for something that nobody gets and that costs the company $0.00. Why is that so hard to understand?
02-07-2022, 08:02 PM
#120
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 831
Originally Posted by J586
Finally someone that gets it! I'm light years ahead of the new hires but can't imagine leaving them behind anymore than I would a jumpseater.
or
Get them an extra $50/hr for a year. I know which one I'd rather have.
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