You seem to be very cranky and extremely misinformed. You were probably the Captain yelling in the back of a Joint Council meeting to let them furlough junior pilots when we where in reduced MBLG (The old 4A2B reduction) that prevents furloughs.

why do you keep spreading misinformation? Tell me what source you can site that says the Union is getting rid of our A-Plan. That’s exactly the opposite of their openers. You are sowing seeds of misinformation and not one thread of evidence to back it up.

you are full of sh@%

 

Actually, I was there when the Captain said to furlough. I know his name, but won't say it here. I had flown with him, and although he himself had been furloughed, I was shocked at what he said.

Basically, he said that furloughs were a part of this business, and the guys getting near to retirement should not have to suffer when they had been through it already.

I don't agree, but his gist was, "it happened to me, why should you be exempt?". In some ways, he has a point.

All in all, he was a great Captain to fly with. He was a good mentor and friend. He has long since retired, and last I heard, he had a stroke and was not doing well.

I couldn't have been the one saying that, because at the time, I was held in the right seat for over 6 years due to the way the company and the union implemented the regulatory age change.

If we don't increase the A plan, and switch to a pancake plan, the A plan will die. Mark my words. How is that spreading misinformation?

You say the openers explain that? The openers are intentionally vague, on purpose, so at the end, so the NC can do whatever they please.

Try getting your block rep to tell you the truth about what they are negotiating. I should be able to get that answer. I can't, because they know what they are doing is not favored by the crew force.

They are going to show their cards at the end, and then have road shows about how "lie flat seats" doesn't really mean what is says in black and white on paper. How did that turn out last time?

If the NC would be honest with the crew force, we wouldn't have to speculate, would we?

The company knows what we are negotiating for, why can't the pilots who pay the bills?

If we had listened to some of the cranky old Captains and voted down the 2015 contract like we should have, we might have a better retirement plan already. A lot of them, who would have retired before the TA could have been re-negotiated and had nothing to gain, said to vote no.

I am cranky because I have personally been screwed by the union, and we have been screwed by the union as a group more than once.

I caution you, and everyone, to actually read the TA, and listen when some cranky old Captain says something you don't want to believe.

Like "lie flat seats", his cranky old wisdom might just be better than yours.

COCN

 

Forget longevity based pay. All FOs should be a single pay rate, locked to a percentage of WB/CA. Most of us gave up 200k plus a year to start here, it would be nice if ALPA and it’s carriers welcomed talented people by paying them a wage that is commiserate with their experience.

The seniority system screws more pilots than Lorenzo, and we just say “that’s the way it is”. We should be free to move our experience to another carrier, just like every union trade job. A 25 year plumber/carpenter makes a wage that matches experience. We live in an arcane system that punishes presumed disloyalty to the extreme advantage of operators worldwide.

 

We did? How are you so sure **most** of you gave up that much to start at FedEx? I bet you are in the minority.

 

maybe, anyone who is qualified enough to be hired here lately would have no problem landing a job with a $200k/yr salary.

 

Yup completely. We are now negotiating for people not on the property? It's the Company's problem. There's no way this issue polled hire than the myriad of others - must be the pet peeve of someone on the NC.

 

Uh no sorry. We are hiring anyone who is breathing and meets the mins. Now if you got hired back 10-15 years ago you'd be right. If you didn't actually HAVE a $200k/yr salary than you gave up nothing. You didn't give up anything and, if you're even a little bit smart and prepared, you likely knew what the first year pay here was and at just about every other carrier there's no way, zero chance, you would be progressing up the salary scale like you have here. So give it a rest about how valuable you think you are please.

 

nobody forced you to come here! Also as some have said most of you are In wide bodies not sitting sideways, we should not give up anything for new hire pay!

 

Um no. This isn't the regionals. And we won't be that desperate for some time. Otherwise agree.

 

Most people that command $200K/year know the difference between commiserate and commensurate.

If you read up on your history, the seniority system is a huge component of safety culture in aviation as it eliminates a lot of egregious behavior on both the management and crew side of many issues. Getting sleazy won't advance a seniority number and standing tall on a safety issue won't make your seniority number worse.