TA 1.5
07-27-2023, 04:11 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by FDXB757CA
I would agree to mending the pay rates and retro payment, along additional language on Scope.. Then re-submit..
07-27-2023, 04:13 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Crewmember
Posts: 1,380
Originally Posted by Grease
Brown guy here with a question: was there a movement from pilots to sunset the A plan prior to the TA coming out, or was this a total surprise like it was to us outsiders? Where did the idea come from? Thanks!
07-27-2023, 04:23 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,057
Originally Posted by Grease
Brown guy here with a question: was there a movement from pilots to sunset the A plan prior to the TA coming out, or was this a total surprise like it was to us outsiders? Where did the idea come from? Thanks!
Keep in mind, our NC attempted to negotiate away our A plan in exchange for an unproven cash balance plan for a couple of years before Section 6 negotiations even began!!
During negotiations, when asked about the rumors about sunsetting the A plan, and the "Cheiron Scheme" cash balance plan, we were told by our NC and Reps that the rumors were false and to just sit tight and patiently wait for Retirement to be unveiled, it was going to blow our minds away. I guess it did.
07-27-2023, 04:40 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Yuko
I don’t think it was close. We have about 500 on probation who could not vote. This block seemed to be predominantly No. When you factor that in the vote could have potentially be 60s against to 30s for.
We have seen that we have lots of qualified folks ready to step up. I think it is time for MEC/NC to give the process some new blood and energy.
I would like to see a calm transfer of power in the form of resignations vs recalls. We will see how it shakes out.
They (MEC/NC) tried their best, but it was not good enough.
Lastly, the mediator cannot meet before Labor day. We did the first hard step of NO and we should not rush the process.
NO one left behind since amenable date for A plan and no splitting the group with Union busting pension scheme:
We have seen that we have lots of qualified folks ready to step up. I think it is time for MEC/NC to give the process some new blood and energy.
I would like to see a calm transfer of power in the form of resignations vs recalls. We will see how it shakes out.
They (MEC/NC) tried their best, but it was not good enough.
Lastly, the mediator cannot meet before Labor day. We did the first hard step of NO and we should not rush the process.
NO one left behind since amenable date for A plan and no splitting the group with Union busting pension scheme:
07-27-2023, 04:54 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by Synixman;[url=tel:3672974
3672974[/url]]they snowed the Reps with big numbers. How many times did they uncritically repeat "3.8 BILLION! 70m a month!!!", and then sold it hard with threats of furloughs and daily condescending emails.
07-27-2023, 07:33 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by CloudSailor
It was an absolute, 100% surprise to us line-flying chumps when the TA was released.
Keep in mind, our NC attempted to negotiate away our A plan in exchange for an unproven cash balance plan for a couple of years before Section 6 negotiations even began!!
During negotiations, when asked about the rumors about sunsetting the A plan, and the "Cheiron Scheme" cash balance plan, we were told by our NC and Reps that the rumors were false and to just sit tight and patiently wait for Retirement to be unveiled, it was going to blow our minds away. I guess it did.
Keep in mind, our NC attempted to negotiate away our A plan in exchange for an unproven cash balance plan for a couple of years before Section 6 negotiations even began!!
During negotiations, when asked about the rumors about sunsetting the A plan, and the "Cheiron Scheme" cash balance plan, we were told by our NC and Reps that the rumors were false and to just sit tight and patiently wait for Retirement to be unveiled, it was going to blow our minds away. I guess it did.
One of our pilots posted on here the method used to lessen the financial burden to the company while maintaining an A plan. It is definitely worth reviewing that because I think we all would like to have a balance between an A plan and a B plan. Companies tend to say the A plan needs to go away because it is financial burden.
A lot of younger pilots believe the A plan is not worth having because of airline history, but what they are missing is that due to that history, the funding guidelines have changed dramatically. Pension plans cannot be nearly as underfunded as they were back in the day.
07-28-2023, 08:44 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by Grease
Brown guy here with a question: was there a movement from pilots to sunset the A plan prior to the TA coming out, or was this a total surprise like it was to us outsiders? Where did the idea come from? Thanks!
07-28-2023, 10:42 AM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 81
Recall/resign is the first step
Having new reps would guard against them sending us a "turd" to divide us. How long is the process of replacing and training the NC/ MEC? I can wait, and am willing to vote for full retro and amendable date retirement. This is about setting a new precedent in the next contract. Who cares if we can open negotiations 6 mo early? The company is probably still laughing about that one.
Regarding the A plan, we must decide if we are willing to roll over on it. If so, the company needs to compensate us with a buyout. How much is fair? I don't know since the true cost of the A plan is unknown to me and not a direct comparison to B fund and pancakes. Many of us including those about to retire could get on board with a lump sum, perhaps with a tax advantaged rollover option, because, you know, the time value of money and all that. The burden would be on us to take responsibility for how we direct the money. It would get the company out of future funding burdens. But this could harm the future of those who already have a full pension or are retired now, as the plan withers away. Maybe language could be included to protect them? At any rate, it would be best for those on property with a good deal of years remaining, and new hires, if we were on the same retirement scheme. I can't completely trust the A plan or MBCBP, government controls the B fund rules and taxes, so I'd like industry leading pay to enjoy a good life and make some of my own investments.
Regarding the A plan, we must decide if we are willing to roll over on it. If so, the company needs to compensate us with a buyout. How much is fair? I don't know since the true cost of the A plan is unknown to me and not a direct comparison to B fund and pancakes. Many of us including those about to retire could get on board with a lump sum, perhaps with a tax advantaged rollover option, because, you know, the time value of money and all that. The burden would be on us to take responsibility for how we direct the money. It would get the company out of future funding burdens. But this could harm the future of those who already have a full pension or are retired now, as the plan withers away. Maybe language could be included to protect them? At any rate, it would be best for those on property with a good deal of years remaining, and new hires, if we were on the same retirement scheme. I can't completely trust the A plan or MBCBP, government controls the B fund rules and taxes, so I'd like industry leading pay to enjoy a good life and make some of my own investments.
07-28-2023, 02:40 PM
#30
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 824
Originally Posted by Idaho
Having new reps would guard against them sending us a "turd" to divide us. How long is the process of replacing and training the NC/ MEC? I can wait, and am willing to vote for full retro and amendable date retirement. This is about setting a new precedent in the next contract. Who cares if we can open negotiations 6 mo early? The company is probably still laughing about that one.
Regarding the A plan, we must decide if we are willing to roll over on it. If so, the company needs to compensate us with a buyout. How much is fair? I don't know since the true cost of the A plan is unknown to me and not a direct comparison to B fund and pancakes. Many of us including those about to retire could get on board with a lump sum, perhaps with a tax advantaged rollover option, because, you know, the time value of money and all that. The burden would be on us to take responsibility for how we direct the money. It would get the company out of future funding burdens. But this could harm the future of those who already have a full pension or are retired now, as the plan withers away. Maybe language could be included to protect them? At any rate, it would be best for those on property with a good deal of years remaining, and new hires, if we were on the same retirement scheme. I can't completely trust the A plan or MBCBP, government controls the B fund rules and taxes, so I'd like industry leading pay to enjoy a good life and make some of my own investments.
Regarding the A plan, we must decide if we are willing to roll over on it. If so, the company needs to compensate us with a buyout. How much is fair? I don't know since the true cost of the A plan is unknown to me and not a direct comparison to B fund and pancakes. Many of us including those about to retire could get on board with a lump sum, perhaps with a tax advantaged rollover option, because, you know, the time value of money and all that. The burden would be on us to take responsibility for how we direct the money. It would get the company out of future funding burdens. But this could harm the future of those who already have a full pension or are retired now, as the plan withers away. Maybe language could be included to protect them? At any rate, it would be best for those on property with a good deal of years remaining, and new hires, if we were on the same retirement scheme. I can't completely trust the A plan or MBCBP, government controls the B fund rules and taxes, so I'd like industry leading pay to enjoy a good life and make some of my own investments.
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