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And TA 1 would of had our largest pilot group (767) starting above them at $382.53 and going to $394 in three weeks. Alot of the TA was underwhelming but not this part if you're a 767 or Airbus pilot.
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Originally Posted by JustInFacts
(Post 3746659)
We fly the 767-300. Delta pays the same rate for the 767-300 as they do the 757. So, is the industry standard rate for the 767-300 the same as a 777 or a 757. The A300 is smaller than the 767-300. Industry standard would have it pay the same or less than the 767-300.
Again, be careful how you ask for things because you just might get them. |
Originally Posted by JustInFacts
(Post 3746659)
We fly the 767-300. Delta pays the same rate for the 767-300 as they do the 757. So, is the industry standard rate for the 767-300 the same as a 777 or a 757. The A300 is smaller than the 767-300. Industry standard would have it pay the same or less than the 767-300.
Again, be careful how you ask for things because you just might get them. My stance remains, our colllective goal should be: Pay every aircraft, every seat, ever year, at industry standard rates. Exceeding those rates in any jet would clearly meet that goal. (Remember: there's multiple solutions here) Anything less is being disingenious, especially when asking younger guys (and all future new hires) to buy into the MBCB Plan. In Transparency, Integrity and Unity (for Everyone), DLax |
Originally Posted by JustInFacts
(Post 3746659)
We fly the 767-300. Delta pays the same rate for the 767-300 as they do the 757. So, is the industry standard rate for the 767-300 the same as a 777 or a 757. The A300 is smaller than the 767-300. Industry standard would have it pay the same or less than the 767-300.
Again, be careful how you ask for things because you just might get them. |
During previous negotiation cycles, the company didn't want to pay us a higher rate for the 777 because they said something very close to "we already pay top of the industry widebody rates for 767 and A300 that exceed what our competitors pay for the 777"
Nowadays, we have pilots here that have forgotten that and are arguing that we should give up being paid top of the industry widebody rates for our 767F and A300 aircraft. Ever think that other unions didn't bother negotiating hard for 767-3 rates because their companies are parking them rapidly, or in the case of AA, not even flying them at all anymore? |
Originally Posted by DLax85
(Post 3746729)
As I recognized/predicted many posts ago - you are stating the quiet part out loud. The title of this thread is - "Let's Talk 757 Pay Rates"
My stance remains, our colllective goal should be: Pay every aircraft, every seat, ever year, at industry standard rates. Exceeding those rates in any jet would clearly meet that goal. (Remember: there's multiple solutions here) Anything less is being disingenious, especially when asking younger guys (and all future new hires) to buy into the MBCB Plan. In Transparency, Integrity and Unity (for Everyone), DLax What are the multiple solutions you keep talking about? Again, I am not against getting better rates for the 757, I just think using the argument of industry standard is a double edged sword. |
Originally Posted by JustInFacts
(Post 3746887)
I just think using the argument of industry standard is a double edged sword.
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History Lesson
Our Airbus rates have always been tied to Legacy rates. Even before the 777 was on FedEx property. We’re not changing it now just so some folks that benefited from it the past 20 years can also get a pension bump before jumping ship.
Nobody is shooting for industry standard anyway, so it’s all a moot point. Industry leading hourly rates of pay. When a new wide body (larger than the MD) was to come on property, the intent was to have it pay above the WB rate. Just like the A380 rates. We lost the grievance, but made up for it through BKO. |
Originally Posted by JustInFacts
(Post 3746269)
First, let's clear this up. I am not against the 757 paying the same rate that it pays at Delta. My questioning is more along the lines of the argument to get that rate. When we go into negotiations, we have to have justification for our asks. The company asks for that. The NMB asks for that. We ask the same of the company. So, as I cautioned, be careful what you ask for, ie, industry standard rates.
You keep saying that we should have industry standard pay rates. That is one of your justifications for 757 pay. Well, industry standard would make our 767's and Airbuses pay the same as the 757. Is that what you want? How do you convince the mediator that we deserve industry standard on the 757 when we agreed to classify that airframe as a NB in 2006, but say that we don't want that to apply to the 767 and Airbus. You said there are multiple solutions to solve this issue, yet haven't presented any solutions. The other argument you make is that if we give up the A plan, then every dollar counts. I think that is a more solid argument, however, it requires giving up the A plan for all new hires. Is that what we want, an increased A plan for current pilots, and some other DC/MBCBP for all new hires in exchange for higher 757 rates? If we get further down the road with the NMB, and get released, these are things we will have the present to the PEB. Things get more dicy after that. And from a previous post, it doesnt matter if we have 5 year wb captains and ups doesn't. Just like it doesnt matter that legacies had one or two year nb upgrades. Its all cyclical and can change on a whim. Its irrelavant what aircraft management needs to make their business model work, or the demogrophics of the current pilot force. Pay rates should be industry standard or industry leading regardless of how few pilots are on them. |
Originally Posted by JustInFacts
(Post 3746887)
What is the quiet part?
What are the multiple solutions you keep talking about? Again, I am not against getting better rates for the 757, I just think using the argument of industry standard is a double edged sword. Is being “not against” the same as being “for”? Is this “double edge sword” sharp on either side, or dull on both? …like yours always seems to be. The idea that our pilot group is, or should be, afraid to stand up for ourselves has proven to be untrue - especially among the younger guys. Unity and fortitude will be required all the way to the end zone. I post to present data, information & some insight, and to hopefully promote useful discussion & debate. Useful meaning an actual position or solution is ultimately articulated. Your motivation and goals appear different. VR, DLax |
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