I get your point. Not trying to be antagonistic, but American furloughed during COVID.

They furloughed. And unfurloughed because of the bailout. And the pilots got back pay.

Delta sent furlough letters and would’ve done the same thing if not for an 11th hour LOA and the government bailout.

The American furlough during COVID wasn’t actually a furlough. It was a threat of furlough that didn’t truly happen, despite a tiny gap between (repaid) unemployment and the bailout. If the bailout by chance happened to be slightly earlier, that gap wouldn’t exist at all and they’d be the same as Delta (not furloughing).


The fact that American’s furlough “failed” is actually what proves my entire point anyway.

Being too big to fail does not imply too big to cut. If demand falls off and they become overmanned enough, they can and will furlough just like FedEx could furlough if it makes business sense. I get concerned when I see rapid growth. What goes up usually comes back down to a normal trend just like what we see now post-Covid growth mania.


Furlough doesn’t equal failure to a business…but it sure feels like it to the furloughed employees.

Absolutely agree. The pax airlines can still furlough and they are still more sensitive to economic volatility than cargo. I am just saying that the traditional line of thinking about pax and furloughs is outdated.

Again. The industry has changed. I’m with you. But the nasty thing about furlough is personal and familial upheaval. I flew with at least half a dozen American furloughees. Two didn’t want to leave, but at the time felt there was no other choice. One has since moved on to DAL. They would tell you it was a harsh experience to go through.

But again, your point is clear and we are in a new era, as the kids say.

I agree with most of your points, but perhaps the better question is: how long has it been since the big 3 started hiring again?

They got bailed out because the government was trying to stablize the economy and business until the COVID shut down eased. The pax airlines took advantage of the free money and paid employees not to work and to payout early retirements.

That does not sound like a down turn in the economy bailout. It was a global pandemic bailout, big difference.

the company won’t fail, but they make their employees work for less to “save the company” from managements poor decisions.

I’m not sure the government will bail out ann airline if it is an economical cycle that puts a carrier into a precarious financial position.

With retirements I don’t think their be a furlough anytime soon. It doesn’t mean they won’t ask for concessions if times get tight.

Total agreement.

Not a very good history lesson. Our Airbus rates have always been lumped in with our other WB rates. They were nevery tied to Legacy rates.

We negotiated for BKO at the same time we negotiated for the A380 rates. We didn't make up for anything with the BKO we already had.