Originally Posted by plzdontfireme (Post 3748462)

UA removed their offsets I believe.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 3748509)

The fact that our WB rates were comporable to their bk rates makes my case stronger. FDX never went through bk so if anything our rates should be higher their theirs.

LTD, two of the three legacies have no caps either. Its become industry standard. Let me put it this way, if we got no offsets, we still wouldn't be industry leading. We'd be catching up. So sorry if I didn't mention that delta has offsets for workers comp or pbgc anuities or that they all other offsets are gone after 3 years. The point is that if you throw out pbs, I throw out a couple dozen items were we are not industry STANDARD. The pbs argment is dead.

Lastly, this isn't about trying not to let management know any secrets. This is about OUR mentality. The mentality that we can't have a good things. When people make the pbs argument it furthers that mentaility into other's minds and they start spreading it. We need unity, not pilots thinking we cant ask for more simple becuase we don't have pbs or some other item. If you don't beleive it, fine. Don't spread the mind virus to others that are fighting to get a better contract.

Originally Posted by plzdontfireme (Post 3748580)

Outside of bankruptcy. I can't think of a single time the legacy carriers looked at our negotiated widebody rates and said "oh hey, let's negotiate a rate lower than FedEx, that will surely pass and won't drag the industry down with us"

meanwhile, 2000 fedex pilots voted to do exactly that.

Originally Posted by JustInFacts (Post 3748628)

Nope, UAL still has an offset.

Originally Posted by plzdontfireme (Post 3748580)

Outside of bankruptcy. I can't think of a single time the legacy carriers looked at our negotiated widebody rates and said "oh hey, let's negotiate a rate lower than FedEx, that will surely pass and won't drag the industry down with us"

meanwhile, 2000 fedex pilots voted to do exactly that.

Originally Posted by 2BEER (Post 3748643)

This exactly!

Originally Posted by plzdontfireme (Post 3748648)

Their AIP guide said that offsets were removed unless you accept another position at UAL. Is that not correct?

Originally Posted by EMBFlyer (Post 3748623)

The American furlough was ABSOLUTELY a furlough. I was there. They sent pilots to the street. It was real and it hppened.

Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3749008)

Not to minimize it. But how long were you Furloughed?

Originally Posted by EMBFlyer (Post 3749012)

I personally wasn't. I left AA on my own accord, but I was I done with the place.

I know the actual furlough was very short, but it was technically a furlough, none the less. That was painfully evident when it came time to train the recalled pilots back up and the length of time it took to requal them.

Whether I was personally furloughed or not is irrelevant. I was just correcting a small amount of the piles and piles misinformation that plagues this site (and others).

Originally Posted by JustInFacts (Post 3748632)

You were the one who said that our WB rates were banded to the majors highest rate. I showed that wasn't the case.

Which two, UAL has an offset as well.

Where did I say anything about PBS? You are confusing me with another poster.

This discussion is about 757 rates. I simply pointed out that saying our 757 rates should be tied to UAL, DAL, or AA because they are industry standard is a dangerous argument. For 17 years, our 757 has been tied to our NB rate. When we got the 777, the arbitrator agreed with the company that we have a NB and WB rate. Now, if we say we want industry standard rates, how do we keep our 767 and Airbus at WB rates. They aren't industry standard. They also comprise about 35% of our crewforce.

I have no problem trying to make things better. We just better make sure our arguments for one item don't hurt another item.