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Quote:

Originally Posted by max8222 (Post 3747951)

FXLAX posted "I dont want what other passenger airlines have. I want THIS airline to have BETTER than what passenger airlines have. We have a good system form that provides mostly what most pilots like. Now I'd like to see us go towards being industry leading at some point in the next couple of contract cycles. I'll do my best and my part to help us get there. Its my goal but at least its not to toil in the mid to lower teir pilot contracts."

I thoroughly agree with this. I used PBS as one large item that we do not want, I could have added things such as their vacation which is way worse than ours. I used one instance why we do not want to preach industry standard. We want what is best for Fedex pilots and how we operate. Of course other airlines provide metrics and we should not ignore what they have.

In the past when we were way ahead the company wanted to compare us to the majors, of course they only want to compare when we are ahead. Now that we are behind they say we are different and you can't compare. I know who the enemy is. I might have been here a long time but I know who pays me and also sees me as a cost center where they will try and save money.

Yes, I acknowledged that we have about three things we are arguably ahead on. But that's why I listed a whole bunch of things we are way behind on. So if you are going to say in essence, we cant ask for that because pbs or any other list of things, I come back with the list of things we are not industry standard, let alone leading. So again, my only point is, don't throw that pbs bull out when there are more things we are behind on than ahead on. Don't argue on behalf of what management says, they don't need the help. This is the time we need to be unified and not show any weaknesses. If you trully feel that we cant ask for something becuase pbs, then please just don't say it at all. Let those who are trying to be unifed and strong take the lead. Having pilots argue against the collective pilots' interest only weakens us at the table.

We aren't going to get everything this time around. I mean, we are only negotaiting a few things on TA2. But we need to start somewhere. Maybe in a couple of contract cycles we will be back on top and managment will change their tune again on who to compare us to.

You think I want to give up things for the company, you have read into all of that. I never said to give up a thing. I mostly say we need to get what is best for us and to stop parrotting industry standard. I want us to be unified because that is the only way we will get the contract that we want. In fighting.especially between jubior and senior will get us nothiing but a crap contract.

I have friends at all of the majors so I talk with them all the time. So I do not have my head in the sand on what is occuring outside of Fedex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by max8222 (Post 3747968)

Then stop throwing out the bs PBS argument out there. And tell all your fedex pilot friends not to do it either. When pilots stop arguing against our own position, then we will be unifed.

PS, your delta freind was wrong. Please use the contract comparisons so you actually know what industry standard is currently. At this point, I'd be content with industry standard and a few industry leading items (line bidding, vacation, retirement). I hope one day itll be industry leading with a few industry standard items.

I believe that we have turned PBS aginst ourselves and make it appear far more valuable than it is. Our schedule is far more driven by system form than any of the pax carriers.

I'm not saying this to advocate for PBS. For one it would be disastrous to our vacation policy. I just don't think it holds the massive value to the company that we give it credit for. It has a much more limited utility here.

They have an airsoft held to our head and we treat it like a .45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merle Haggard (Post 3748017)

Agree with this assessment.

I use PBS as a quick example and the two of you run off on a tangent like I said I would trade your new born to keep PBS.

My friend is on the LEC at Delta and spent man hours duing their TA talking to pilots in their crew room and on the phone about the contract. So I assumed he was a good source.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan446 (Post 3747931)

Pax carriers will never layoff agian, right. Seems like you have no idea of what the industry is like.

Not at FedEx, but curious about this line of thinking. Of course pax could furlough again. Anybody could furlough. But, the reality is the industry is different than the one you watched throughout your career. Consolidation has led to far fewer carriers, leading them to be much more likely to be too big to fail. During COVID, they didn’t receive one bailout, but THREE rounds of bailout money. Nobody was furloughed despite plans to furlough. I don’t think the legacies furloughed much (if at all) during the 2008 crisis. So that would make the last round of real furloughs to be 20+ years ago after 9/11. Just heavy stagnation. Profits since 2014 have been unlike anything in the first 90 years of the pax airlines.

Yes, they are more sensitive to the economy and they can furlough, but the notion that furloughs will occur at any hiccup is an old line of thinking. They are more resilient and consolidation has led to a different paradigm.

They got bailed out because of COVID, not because they are to big to fail. Looking at their explosive growth right now and how they are trying to capture market share, thee will be winners and losers. With the highly leveraged aircraft purchase a big slow down and you will see cut backs real fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by max8222 (Post 3748109)

They got bailed out because they were too big to fail. They weren’t bailed out after 9/11 because they were not too big to fail. 4 carriers have 80% of the market share. It never used to be like that.

The other factor is retirements. There has never been a retirement wave like this one. And it will blunt staffing overages for a while to come. There was no such shock absorber in previous crises.

I ask again, how long as it been since the big 3 furloughed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by max8222 (Post 3748109)

Actually, highly leveraged aircraft purchases bring the interests of aircraft finance markets and Boeing to the "too big to fail" table as well - making it even less likely that the government would sit on its hands.

Good point.