Shaman

We pay for representation. this isn't a game and no one is under any obligation to just accept their leadership. The biggest problem is they've never experienced anything like this.

Them: shut up and color

Others: go eat a bag of @#$s

Anthrax

Don’t voice dissent or you’re crying. tell me, were you crying when you voted no, a dissenting vote?

so far as I can tell, you came on here crying about those of us who want to hold the union accountable.

willflyforfud

I'm not crying( I'm a rich old capt who only flies blg) 🤣.. but some people are picking the wrong side to fight against.. direct that energy toward the correct people. We have a consensus among a majority in the MEC and they have a plan... We have new MEC leadership, give them a chance.

***you know you hit a nerve when name calling and grammar police show up. cheers "bros".. I don't want to argue.

bitwiser

This "agreement" (will we ever see a formal resolution codifying this backroom deal?) is just a kicking of the can for four additional months. The way I see it, there are three possible outcomes by May:
1. Nothing changes. As we approach the end of April, PM uses the same argument yet again to extend the deadline on his own job. After all, now we're super deep into negotiations! We can't start over now!
2. We get a ****ty TA1.1 that shuffles money around from TA1, but has no significant overall improvement. TA is voted down even harder than the first one because it is now even more clear just how lagging our first TA was. Every legacy and soon Southwest will be way ahead of us. I think this outcome is the most likely.
3. ****ty TA1.1 passes because of negotiating fatigue and impatience in the face of MASSIVE INFLATION. FedEx has raised shipping rates over 25% since our last pay raise. It's understandable that we need a raise immediately, but IMO getting the right deal (with 100% retro pay) is more important.

None of those options are good. We should have ripped the bandaid off and replaced the NC as soon as the TA failed. Waiting longer to rip it off isn't going to make the situation any better. Bookmark this thread for May and tell me I was wrong. I'd love to be wrong.

Temocil27

Honest question— what does the company have to lose by prolonging negotiations indefinitely? Zero. I hated TA1 and voted NO within seconds of reading it. However, it makes no sense to clean house and lose all that precious time. We’re not going to be getting any significant money from the company folks. All the flights are being flown, people still volunteering to help out, overall volume is down, and we’re overstaffed. Waiting years will do nothing but lose us money.

Shaman

You state honest question and then you answer your own question? TA1 wasn't the problem it was the result. The people who negotiated it presented it defended and high pressure sold it are. Was the last MEC a bunch of idiots with no sense? That's not a rhetorical question? They were given guidence by their negotiator and they signed off. The very same thing is happening now. All the leadership is coalecing around an outcome and when the result is produced its gonna get cosigned. Believing anything else is letting hope override your lived expereince. That same guy is gonna come with slides about declining volumes and staffing levels. Hell you yourself are already determining what the limitations of what we can expect based upon current conditions that are most likely temporary. We need to play our hand and they need to play theirs. Not a day goes by when another FDX pilot doesn't sit around prognosticating about things for which they have no control and even less understanding.

Any gains achieved are gonna come at a cost. Thats what this union and many of its members don't want to accept. Negotiation is a blood sport not a knitting circle. Nearly a decade here and all ive seen was pilots who thought they were so clever and smooth give away stuff we like to get stuff we might like better.

willflyforfud

It amazes me how much energy and passion people put into these posts and the perceived fear of a failed negotiation 2.0 and the detrimental effects on your career/earnings. Time is money... and you can't get back time. Easy math with a financial calculator to see what any payrate/retirement change will yield over a contract period... and how many months of 2015 payrates w/o a raise will require more than a normal contract period to recoup lost wages. Job security... I get it. We all want it, that's why I'm here and I want the company and employees to do well so the pension is paid till I'm 100. So, I'm glad peeps are fighting for scope.

BUT, how much effort are you putting into your own financial well being? You can't control every aspect of a contract negotiation. You can control your own prep for eventual retirement. I've seen more pilots do SIGNIFICANT financial damage to themselves more than any NC/MEC ever could win back in a contract negotiation. Marry well, for some of you... get anger management... or a good lawyer/prenup... have plenty of ins/disability ins/trusts/wills and seek outside financial advice.

Any newhire who has a 25+ yr career here will be worth 9+ million dollars at retirement if you don't lose half due to divorce, family illness or poor choices. So keep your spouse happy, exercise and limit risky behaviors. We will get a great contract and I will retire and relieve overmanning. I wish all y'all a Happy New Year!!

Anthrax

shut up!!!

willflyforfud

yes... the anger management was directed at you 🤣 thx for taking the bait 🤣😂

MonkeyChunk

Sounds like you need to get your own financial well-being in order if you’re relying on a rushed TA to plump up your retirement so you can retire. I say, let’s take our time and get this right. If it takes two years, it takes two years.