FDXLAG

He had no control, he just beat the system. Should he have turned down the money?

Jetjok

PPP,

Just wondering if you'd be mad at a guy who won the Irish Sweepstakes? I don't think Albie was "milking the system", instead I think he was just lucky in his seat seniority to be able to take advantage of the situation. It wasn't at anyone's expense, except the Company's of course ($$$.)

busdriver12

Exactly. It's not like one has any control over the things that the company is going to do. Like FDXLAG said, what's he supposed to do, turn down the money? I am glad that sometimes people are able to get good deals and make more money, it's not like it is their fault when these things happen. I am happy that sometimes people can benefit, even if I'm not able to. For all the guys and gals collecting passover pay---good for them! It's not coming out of my paycheck, and even if it was, it sure wasn't their fault.

Hey, my motto always has been--If someone has to get paid for doing nothing, it may as well be me.....then again, I never was smart enough or lucky enough to get passover pay.

Albief15

I don't think I was rolling in joy.. I was making the most of the situation, and enjoying the irony that going "cheap" on the LOA suddenly got real expensive for the company.

If you do a search--I offered a lot of advice to a lot of guys considering doing the same thing. The only caveat was simple--you had to be ready to fly out of the Hong Kong bid pack if your number came up. Mine never did, but a bunch of friends got schwacked along the way and either commuted it or went over for while. I spent hours on the phone with a bunch of FedEx guys asking me about the process and how it worked. Some went for it, but many simply said "there is no way I can make it work if they send me..." For me, it was a math problem. WB captain pay minus a coach round trip ticket once a month was still a better deal than FO pay, and (not important for everyone but I wanted it..) wearing 4 stripes and being a captain bouncing around Asia sounded like fun. It still does.

FWIW...I am moving over there later this month with family in tow on the 767. Could have bid out, and never was forced to go as FEPP ended before the latest bid. And yet--I am going over and excited about the possibilities. There was nothing else on my standing bid. I can also say that for six years my seniority was not honored (like those over 60 guys) so I used the available legal and contractual means to seek damages (passover). Last I checked that option was available to EVERY FedEx pilot senior to JS, employee number 5xxxxx, the last guy awarded Hong Kong on the initial bid. With a (-1) by EVERY seat in the 08/09 excess bids, everyone had a chance to bid.

But to make it clear, I had a lot of anger towards a lot of folks at the time. Congress, ALPA National, our MEC--who pushed for retroactivity, the guys coming back off the panel, and the company for having such a bid. But anger doesn't solve problems, analysis does. I stayed in the 727 right seat for years hoping to ease over to the left seat. That plan blew up, so I adapted. I wasn't gloating about age 65, just pointing out sometimes even in chaos there is opportunity. There are other good deals out there right now lurking...our job is to find them. There is still some FEPP going on (I think) due to the 757 left seat in CDG. Guys use excess bids to sell their houses and move at company expense. Lots of training means lots of training bumps (for some lucky FOs). You can call it scamming, or you can call it knowing your contract...label as you see fit. But Ive bumped about 30 hours of 75/76 flying this summer alone, with 4 days of SLF yet to go adding another 15. Multiply that by all the training we have coming, and you can see a lot of guys are going to be getting paid to enjoy their time off for the next couple years. I don't begrudge those guys who stay senior in the right seat and get bumped--I'm happy for them. There are folks way junior to me who were NEVER in danger of going to HKG who collected FEPP for 5-6 years, and all I say to them "good on ya..". I was envious of the 4 year 727 captains I knew here...hired 6 months before me.. and never got to get that good deal... Good deals will come and go...but you need to be able to execute and go for them when the opportunity arises. Even in a seniority based system, a little initiative and knowledge go a long way.

NoHaz

Milk the system? Its a two way street The company was happy to "milk the system" when they pushed through a substandard LOA separate from section 6? I'm sure they were proud of the future cost savings and relieved when they were able to man it (albeit very junior). This junior FDA and the unnecessary excesses created the FEPP "opportunity". Many of the original FEPP were actually inbound to HKG and denied it and last minute changes in dependent school plans, housing plans etc. were difficult but FEPP did ease the pain.
As Albie said, plenty had the opportunity (plenty of recent -1 excesses) but you had to be willing to go to HKG on any given bid and be willing to pay back if you your family situation changed. FEPP also precluded you from sideways bids or seat/base changes to anywhere but HKG. All limitations a normal bidder didn't need to consider.
Meanwhile the company maintained a full court press to reduce and eliminate the FEPP it created. If it wasn't close to you you may have missed the virtual training letter agreement, unposted secondary awards for 25 extra Capts to HKG followed shortly after by a full HKG excess.
So I'd say "milking the system" (contract) is a two way street and the company has the upper hand as they can re-interpret and execute and leave the crewmembers to struggle through the long grievance process.

The Walrus

Albie played it perfect. If you were the same seniority and backed out then that is on you.

AH, it did come across as a little self serving, although I know that was not the intent. There was a small group of pilots who were in a position to take advantage of the situation and fewer that acted.

Keep your head in the game and you might one day find your niche. But to Albie, you did come off a little rough.

PicklePausePull

This is the attitude I found reprehensible. Albie is saying ,"thanks" to the very guys that allowed him to get passover pay while screwing the majority of his mates who had to sit in the right seat for another 5+ years.

That's how it reads, anyway.

Nightflyer

I am slightly senior to Albie.

On the last bid before the age change, I could have held MEM A300 Captain, 10 from the bottom.

I thought, "I will wait until the next bid".

The next bids were all the excess, put the over 60 FE's back in the Captain's seat bids.

On those excess bids, 30 guys JUNIOR TO ME, were awarded A300 Captain through the excess bid process, and held it for at least a couple years.

When I told the union that the excess bid process was abrogating my seniority, they told me, "you should have bid it when you could hold it".

Had I known about age 65 in advance, I would have bid it.

30 guys junior to me took my seniority and my Captain's seat in the excess bid.

"My" union, who is supposed to represent me, didn't understand why I was upset.

I got screwed, by my own union, and I will never forget it.

If I had bid Hong Kong, to get the FEPP pay, I would have had to go, so no relief there.

I flew with Captain's who tried to tell me that they had been screwed by age 65 as well, because they didn't get their seniority to bid each month. Give me a break.

Age 65 was a major screwing of the junior guys.

The word "thanks", with regard to age 65, will never cross my lips.

The Walrus

Couldn't you have bid to relieve the excess.

Nightflyer

The bids were manipulated and done in succession.

I can't remember the details, but the bottom line was I couldn't.