Raptor

But couldn't they only put the -1 with an excess posting, not a vacancy posting.

With this system bid, it seems like every bid is a combo excess and vacancy and you have no idea until it closes if you've been excesses. Too bad for you if you just bought a house in Alaska or LA!

Am I reading it correctly?

PurpleToolBox

There's still no difference.

In the new system, if they only post a "vacancy" (a category which is below the minimum staffing level), you can't get bumped out of your category (see the possibilities below). If they post an "excess" (a category which is above the maximum staffing category), then yes if you are junior, you may be bumped out of your category.

A pilot can move to a category unless that category is below the minimum staffing level. (24.C.2.a)

In order to move to a category which is properly staffed (equal to or above the minimum and below the maximum dynamic staffing level), a pilot must be in an overstaffed category and his seniority can hold the new position. (24.C.2.b)

If you are in an overstaffed category, two things can happen. If you are senior to a junior pilot, you can elect to move in place for the junior pilot to a category where your seniority can hold. Or if you are junior, you will be moved to another category where your seniority can hold. (24.C.2.c)

Assignment right of return pilots. If it has been less than 18 months since activated in assignment, that pilot has first dibs on his previous assignment. And everyone electing to ARR get processed first in seniority before pilots without ARR eligibility. For example, a junior pilot was "excessed" off the bottom of the 777 and sent to the MD11. If it has been less than 18 months since the pilot activated in the MD11, he has first dibs to go back to the 777 provided the 777 is not overstaffed. After all of the ARR pilots are processed, then the rest of the pilots are processed. (24.C.2.e)

Personally I think it is best when they process a vacancy and excess at the same time. In previous setups, they would first process the excess. Then once everyone was in place where their seniority allowed them to be, they would then open up the vacancies and let people bid into those vacancies.

By doing it all at once, people might not get excessed because someone senior to a junior pilot may elect to move to a vacancy position and the category then might go below the maximum staffing level.

MalteseX

Yes. That's the way I read it. Every bid CAN be a combo vacancy and excess bid. Therefore it probably WILL always be one.

I'm sorry, but I don't see where this is an IMPROVEMENT as far as the crew members are concerned. Why change the current system?

Nightflyer

But it has got to be an improvement, the NC said today that every section was an improvement.

I forget which question was asked today, but the NC said basically that they acted at the direction of the MEC.

So, if you don't like the TA, the MEC is to blame, not the NC, at least, according to the NC.

Raptor

I didn't make the call. Anyone have a synopsis?

PurpleToolBox

Because the new system is better. The company doesn't want to train any more pilots than they have to. By allowing the company to process vacancies and excesses at the same time, less people get bumped out of other categories. If you are junior in category and have just purchased a house, you'd want this system, not the older one.

Real life example. The company closed HKG A300. But we knew they were going to replace it with HKG 767.

Under the old system, the company excesses all HKG A300 pilots and place -1s on all the other categories. Everyone is then bumped and flushed. Nearly anyone who is junior in category and junior to anyone being excessed out of HKG is in jeopardy of losing their current assignment.

Under the new system, the company posts the "excess" on the A300 while posting the "vacancy" on the HKG 767. Since most A300 HKG pilots wanted to stay in HKG, and most non-HKG pilots didn't want to move to HKG, there are less excessed pilots from other categories.

Look at it this way, would you rather be junior at the bottom of a category where there is an excess with no open holes for bodies to fill? Or would you rather be on the bottom of a category where there are open holes to fill in the system, and maybe you might not get pushed out?

FDXLAG

This is one of the flaws in the way we do surveys, I am sure Bid For Training was relatively high on the desired response, probably higher than keep POP. But because we dont publish results, the will of 20% can drive negotiations. Bid for training was one of my strong points, I like this section of the TA.

pipe

I listened to over two hours of it, and I can give you a synopsis:

"This was the best we could get."

Over and over they said "the company just wasn't willing to move from their position on that issue", and apparently our negotiators responded, "okay".

Their understanding of the issues was impressive, the resultant TA doesn't seem reflective of that.

Pipe

kwri10s

I especially found the comment telling when they were pressed hard why we accepted the cancel of the hotel in lieu. The answer was, "we didn't think it was being used like it was intended so we changed it". WHAT!! Who cares if it was not being used as intended. The fellows like it, leave it alone.

FlyBoyd

Exactly...like the company would ever self police like that. Do you think we would ever hear the company say something like "We eliminated the possibility for Hotel Standby on R-24 because the schedulers weren't using it as intended?"