Every Bid an Excess Bid
09-03-2015, 06:51 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Triple Capt
Posts: 608
Originally Posted by pipe
I listened to over two hours of it, and I can give you a synopsis:
"This was the best we could get."
Over and over they said "the company just wasn't willing to move from their position on that issue", and apparently our negotiators responded, "okay".
Their understanding of the issues was impressive, the resultant TA doesn't seem reflective of that.
Pipe
"This was the best we could get."
Over and over they said "the company just wasn't willing to move from their position on that issue", and apparently our negotiators responded, "okay".
Their understanding of the issues was impressive, the resultant TA doesn't seem reflective of that.
Pipe
Over and over, WE said "the pilots of this union will NEVER ratify PBS or anything that even remotely resembles PBS; we just aren't willing to move on that issue, it's unratifiable," (sp?) and apparently, the company negotiators responded, "okay."
THEIR understanding of the issues is always impressive because it's THEIR game, THEY own all the balls and bats, including the time clock, and we have a rulebook called the RLA that governs both teams. The resultant TA reflects that -- plainly and in it's entirety.
09-03-2015, 07:02 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by kwri10s
I especially found the comment telling when they were pressed hard why we accepted the cancel of the hotel in lieu. The answer was, "we didn't think it was being used like it was intended so we changed it". WHAT!! Who cares if it was not being used as intended. The fellows like it, leave it alone.
What do you mean by we "accepted the cancel of the hotel in lieu"?
09-03-2015, 08:06 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 331
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
Maybe I'm reading the TA wrong - but I don't see that hotel-in-lieu of has changed significantly. Both non-intercontinental and intercontinental sections are up to 3 nights in the hotel in-lieu of DH just like the current contract. Per diem for such an effort is intact as well.
What do you mean by we "accepted the cancel of the hotel in lieu"?
What do you mean by we "accepted the cancel of the hotel in lieu"?
a pretty big change for folks who utilize this provision.
09-03-2015, 08:40 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by kwri10s
I especially found the comment telling when they were pressed hard why we accepted the cancel of the hotel in lieu. The answer was, "we didn't think it was being used like it was intended so we changed it". WHAT!! Who cares if it was not being used as intended. The fellows like it, leave it alone.
09-03-2015, 08:47 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by gcsass
now you can get up to 6 nights....3 before and 3 after.......new contract, non intercontinental you only get 3 nights and the trip must end and begin in the same city....
a pretty big change for folks who utilize this provision.
a pretty big change for folks who utilize this provision.
09-03-2015, 09:03 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
I agree. But, I'm just not seeing the new language that puts in this new restriction. I look at the old and the new. Both say 3 nights at beginning OR end of trip. Old doesn't say 6. Is this a new interpretation of old language? Is there an "intent" statement in the new I'm missing or is this just word of mouth via Q+A or teleconference. I watched both webinars.
09-03-2015, 09:59 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Well, what kind of nickel and dime BS is that? I can't believe the NC didn't just shame them off this idea when it first came up. We can't be talking about significant money here in the big scheme of things.
UFB!
So, the company wants to grab back some of the money they already allocated and technically spent on DH tickets rather than let us use it. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. It's not like it's new behavior. Well, that'll help offset the rolling deviation bank.
I guess the NC must have left their "line in the sand" maker at home that day.
UFB!
So, the company wants to grab back some of the money they already allocated and technically spent on DH tickets rather than let us use it. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. It's not like it's new behavior. Well, that'll help offset the rolling deviation bank.
I guess the NC must have left their "line in the sand" maker at home that day.
09-04-2015, 01:12 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 711
The 6 days was just an extension via FOX preapproval from the 3 days in the contract.
While the number of days didn't change in the wording, it was how it was applied. Old: international DH could be used (ie anything that touched outside the 48. New: differentiates between international and intercontinental. Intercontinental is now the new requirement for "international hotel in lieu of" and intercontinental is over 5 hours block and between continent emits in the definitions section. Thus, all DHs for the HKG and CGN folks are not intercontinental...a major perk and a major reason for living overseas gone.
While the number of days didn't change in the wording, it was how it was applied. Old: international DH could be used (ie anything that touched outside the 48. New: differentiates between international and intercontinental. Intercontinental is now the new requirement for "international hotel in lieu of" and intercontinental is over 5 hours block and between continent emits in the definitions section. Thus, all DHs for the HKG and CGN folks are not intercontinental...a major perk and a major reason for living overseas gone.
09-04-2015, 01:26 AM
#29
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Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,052
Originally Posted by Raptor
The 6 days was just an extension via FOX preapproval from the 3 days in the contract.
While the number of days didn't change in the wording, it was how it was applied. Old: international DH could be used (ie anything that touched outside the 48. New: differentiates between international and intercontinental. Intercontinental is now the new requirement for "international hotel in lieu of" and intercontinental is over 5 hours block and between continent emits in the definitions section. Thus, all DHs for the HKG and CGN folks are not intercontinental...a major perk and a major reason for living overseas gone.
While the number of days didn't change in the wording, it was how it was applied. Old: international DH could be used (ie anything that touched outside the 48. New: differentiates between international and intercontinental. Intercontinental is now the new requirement for "international hotel in lieu of" and intercontinental is over 5 hours block and between continent emits in the definitions section. Thus, all DHs for the HKG and CGN folks are not intercontinental...a major perk and a major reason for living overseas gone.
For FO's who use this often, the taxable raise is essentially erased by the loss of tax free perdiem. For CA's, obviously a big hit as well. Some crews bid the highest deviation bank lines just for this, about $20K/year in tax free traveling money (in CGN, not sure about HKG).
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