I don't believe they've had a significant change in their perception of our value. And I have yet to read a single viable plan that does anything legal to convince them otherwise.

 

Believe what you wish. I submit that it's time to at least ask the question.

Pipe

 

Regardless of how we got here, here we are, and here we'll be until something dramatically changes. None of those newhires are going to the left seat of the B-777 or any other wide-body or narrow-body jet, and I can't remember the last time The Company didn't solicit vacation buyback in every seat.

Treat us right and there won't be enough jets, pallets, or cans to satisfy all the extra flying we're willing to do. Continue down the current path and January won't spell relief for The Company; it will just be another month of offers for vacation buy-back in every seat.





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What makes you think The Company stopped stalling now and came to the table with money? Are we doing anything illegal now?

They need more from us than they're getting, and the newhire pipeline won't fill the gap.

Their perception will change when the members send a crystal clear message that their offer is insufficient.






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We did. They gave us an 800 page reply a couple weeks ago that spells out in great detail what they think we are worth. It took for years to get that answer from them. I'll ask again...what is our way forward plan to get them to change the answer they just gave us.

 

If that is your idea of negotiating, I'd like to buy your house. I'll make an offer, you take it.

The NC is not us, they are just negotiating on our behalf. I'm sure they've said no to lots of things along the way. Now they need to return and say, "I've taken your offer to my client and they deemed it insufficient".

Pipe

 

I think your first question is a good one. But clearly, at least on this site, a lot of people don't think they bothered to come to the table with anything more than pocket change. I suspect that their offer had something to do with NMB pressure, something to do with hoping to get a little more help during peak, and something to do with the hope that we wouldn't accept their offer and start a new timeline that would extend the 2011CBA another 2 years or so.
Let's say 90% of the pilot group votes no on the TA. Pretty clear message. So what? I don't mean that flippantly. I mean, why would they care? I didn't notice 777 captain seats going unfilled on the last bid. Or any captain seats really. I do notice newhires going to every airplane. Again, if that is our leverage, time is on the company's side. We can't stop them from hiring.

 

Or how about this, you want to sell me your house. But you have no other buyers except me. The house hasn't appreciated in 4 years, and if you don't sell it, it won't appreciate for at least another two. I offer you a decent deal. More than you paid for it. You have no other offers, but you want more. I say no and walk away. Did you win?

 

And they can't stop us from retiring.






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If they believed time was on their side, we would not be talking about a TA.






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