Rock

FDXAV8R,
I get all the listed wants and desires for a new TA. I have yet to see any reasonable explaination of how we convince the company to agree. Voting down the current TA helps them out because continued operation under the 2011 CBA is cheaper for them than paying for what was negotiated in the new TA. Meanwhile, we gain nothing. What exactly is it that will convince them to improve what they've already agreed to in this TA? Remember, our actions have to be legal, and our negotiations are already done under the supervision of the NMB. "We deserve more" is not a very potent opener. I'm simply looking for the trump card people must think we hold that will convince the company to pay more than what is already negotiated.

busdriver12

Perhaps I'm deluded, but I think the company underestimated the pilots. I don't think they want a pi$$ed off crew force, and that they would prefer that we be happy with this contract. They are very undermanned in some crew positions, and will need us to put out extra effort, particularly if the weather gets ugly. I think they would like this settled, and that they would prefer for us to be content, not disgusted. It wouldn't take a huge amount of effort to get this settled in a way that people would be satisfied, I think.

Check 6

Rock,

Do you not remember the FDA LOA's?? Both the NC and the CO told us it was the best they could do...the final offer. Yet when the couldn't fill them, suddenly more $$ and benefits appeared.....?????

This is exactly the same thing......

iarapilot

It seems that based on that thinking even if the TA was much worse than it is, we should vote for it.

It all boils down to what you think you are worth and what you are willing to do to get something better. Thats about it.

iarapilot

Yes, and for the HKG LOA1 the Company unilaterally added benefits to get the right seat filled. After a grievance was filled to all disallow the Company to unilaterally give a benefit that was not in the contract, which was in their favor, the union caved and put it in a side letter. Lovely.

Rock

We had leverage with the FDAs because they couldn't force people to take them. Where's our comparable leverage with this TA? That's what I'm looking for.

Rock

If pay was based on what you think you're worth, there would be no such thing as starving artists. If you want to get paid what you think you are worth, you have to convince your employer you are worth that much. The negotiating team we hired says we're worth what's in the TA. What is your plan to prove them wrong?

TonyC

Have you done much flying lately? Noticed schedule changes, trip revisions, gauge changes, freight left behind on the ramp? The Company needs us to be more productive than we're volunteering to be, and it won't be getting any better any time soon.


Thank them for their service, schedule requal training, interview the new Negotiating Team, and send them to the table with the crystal clear message from the pilots that their last offer was inadequate.

Prime rule in deal-making -- never be afraid to walk away.

No emotion, just pure business.






.

Rock

TonyC, how many of those manpower issues are being driven by us flying in accordance with the contract, and how many are driven by the company's terrible manning estimates? Have you seen the slew of new hire pictures lately? How much longer are manning problems going to be leverage we can use? We are literally undermanned in several seats. If all of us vowed to fly extra during Peak, the company would still be looking at shortfalls. That whole (lack of) goodwill thing between pilots and managment isn't going to disappear with a signed TA. And once this Peak is over, the company will have a year to catch up on hiring and reduce our leverage even more. If manpower issues is our best leverage, our window for using it is closing fast.
Regarding hiring a new NC, if we vote this TA down, I agree with you completely. Has anyone seen a list of eager volunteers ready to step up to the plate?

pipe

You miss the point. The ball is in their court to fix this relationship -- we didn't break it. Step one is coming to the table with enough money to show a significant change in their perception of our value.

When I have a flat tire I don't have it plugged (unless it's a junk tire anyway and I know I'll have a chance to fix it properly very soon). This TA is a bald, bulging, out of round tire. I will not accept "plugging" it -- and then trying to drive it another 50,000 miles (6-10 yrs). Fix it right, or vote yes and see how far until we break down again. I don't think we'll be happy for long.

Pipe