This TA will be ratified
09-19-2015, 06:29 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: MD
Posts: 194
There are a few key elements of leverage I would throw into the pot.
The biggest one is the A plan and B plan situation. The company is highly motivated to eradicate the A plan because of long term costs and liability. That's indusputible.
It's widely known that a few block reps dug their heels in on retaining the A plan for everyone including those not even on the property.
There are viable solutions that result in a win-win for the company and the pilots that will result in tremendous savings and added incentives. The company approached the union with these options and the union took no measures to truly study the options and extend those options to the pilots. It might have been done internally, behind the scenes, but I received ZERO official info from the MEC or NC.
We just got wound up based on rumors and the "Fear Train" of comments ... The company wants to can the A plan. Guess what? There are options that can make sense for us all!
The A plan is a diminishing commodity as it relates to COLA - comparing it to the 1999 implementation, it's now significantly less valuable and will continue to decline. The company WILL NOT under any circumstances increase the high five or any multipliers. Their liability makes it untenable.
Freezing the A plan based on years of service and a significantly increased B plan (with cash over cap) is a possibility. We need to see the numbers. A company buyout plan for the value of each pilot's A plan has some strong appeal. I'd rather have that money NOW (in installments) and put it to work.
This is real leverage whether the TA passes or not. The company will want to deal with this issue. If the TA passes, we work this as a separate issue as an LOA after extensive study, presentation, and voting. If the TA fails, we re-engage once the dust settles. The long term savings justifies additional pay increases IMO.
In the short term: there is a manning concern, retirements are looming, peak is around the corner, they have the money, surcharges are increased, UPS has a strike vote looming (posturing but it matters in public opinion), etc.
The union reps that blocked the study and release of retirement OPTIONS to the pilots prior to the end of negotiations failed us. The MEC and NC failed to see the wisdom of doing this. It's tough to say my negotiating committee and my union speaks for me when we were not properly represented with the options. Personally, a 6 year contract with all of the work rule concessionary givebacks is unattractive to me. Voting NO means we reject what we see. Simple as that. The big money is in retirement liability. The company will not ignore this.
The biggest one is the A plan and B plan situation. The company is highly motivated to eradicate the A plan because of long term costs and liability. That's indusputible.
It's widely known that a few block reps dug their heels in on retaining the A plan for everyone including those not even on the property.
There are viable solutions that result in a win-win for the company and the pilots that will result in tremendous savings and added incentives. The company approached the union with these options and the union took no measures to truly study the options and extend those options to the pilots. It might have been done internally, behind the scenes, but I received ZERO official info from the MEC or NC.
We just got wound up based on rumors and the "Fear Train" of comments ... The company wants to can the A plan. Guess what? There are options that can make sense for us all!
The A plan is a diminishing commodity as it relates to COLA - comparing it to the 1999 implementation, it's now significantly less valuable and will continue to decline. The company WILL NOT under any circumstances increase the high five or any multipliers. Their liability makes it untenable.
Freezing the A plan based on years of service and a significantly increased B plan (with cash over cap) is a possibility. We need to see the numbers. A company buyout plan for the value of each pilot's A plan has some strong appeal. I'd rather have that money NOW (in installments) and put it to work.
This is real leverage whether the TA passes or not. The company will want to deal with this issue. If the TA passes, we work this as a separate issue as an LOA after extensive study, presentation, and voting. If the TA fails, we re-engage once the dust settles. The long term savings justifies additional pay increases IMO.
In the short term: there is a manning concern, retirements are looming, peak is around the corner, they have the money, surcharges are increased, UPS has a strike vote looming (posturing but it matters in public opinion), etc.
The union reps that blocked the study and release of retirement OPTIONS to the pilots prior to the end of negotiations failed us. The MEC and NC failed to see the wisdom of doing this. It's tough to say my negotiating committee and my union speaks for me when we were not properly represented with the options. Personally, a 6 year contract with all of the work rule concessionary givebacks is unattractive to me. Voting NO means we reject what we see. Simple as that. The big money is in retirement liability. The company will not ignore this.
09-19-2015, 07:21 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
Originally Posted by GetRealDude
There are a few key elements of leverage I would throw into the pot.
The biggest one is the A plan and B plan situation. The company is highly motivated to eradicate the A plan because of long term costs and liability. That's indusputible.
It's widely known that a few block reps dug their heels in on retaining the A plan for everyone including those not even on the property.
There are viable solutions that result in a win-win for the company and the pilots that will result in tremendous savings and added incentives. The company approached the union with these options and the union took no measures to truly study the options and extend those options to the pilots. It might have been done internally, behind the scenes, but I received ZERO official info from the MEC or NC.
We just got wound up based on rumors and the "Fear Train" of comments ... The company wants to can the A plan. Guess what? There are options that can make sense for us all!
The A plan is a diminishing commodity as it relates to COLA - comparing it to the 1999 implementation, it's now significantly less valuable and will continue to decline. The company WILL NOT under any circumstances increase the high five or any multipliers. Their liability makes it untenable.
Freezing the A plan based on years of service and a significantly increased B plan (with cash over cap) is a possibility. We need to see the numbers. A company buyout plan for the value of each pilot's A plan has some strong appeal. I'd rather have that money NOW (in installments) and put it to work.
This is real leverage whether the TA passes or not. The company will want to deal with this issue. If the TA passes, we work this as a separate issue as an LOA after extensive study, presentation, and voting. If the TA fails, we re-engage once the dust settles. The long term savings justifies additional pay increases IMO.
In the short term: there is a manning concern, retirements are looming, peak is around the corner, they have the money, surcharges are increased, UPS has a strike vote looming (posturing but it matters in public opinion), etc.
The union reps that blocked the study and release of retirement OPTIONS to the pilots prior to the end of negotiations failed us. The MEC and NC failed to see the wisdom of doing this. It's tough to say my negotiating committee and my union speaks for me when we were not properly represented with the options. Personally, a 6 year contract with all of the work rule concessionary givebacks is unattractive to me. Voting NO means we reject what we see. Simple as that. The big money is in retirement liability. The company will not ignore this.
The biggest one is the A plan and B plan situation. The company is highly motivated to eradicate the A plan because of long term costs and liability. That's indusputible.
It's widely known that a few block reps dug their heels in on retaining the A plan for everyone including those not even on the property.
There are viable solutions that result in a win-win for the company and the pilots that will result in tremendous savings and added incentives. The company approached the union with these options and the union took no measures to truly study the options and extend those options to the pilots. It might have been done internally, behind the scenes, but I received ZERO official info from the MEC or NC.
We just got wound up based on rumors and the "Fear Train" of comments ... The company wants to can the A plan. Guess what? There are options that can make sense for us all!
The A plan is a diminishing commodity as it relates to COLA - comparing it to the 1999 implementation, it's now significantly less valuable and will continue to decline. The company WILL NOT under any circumstances increase the high five or any multipliers. Their liability makes it untenable.
Freezing the A plan based on years of service and a significantly increased B plan (with cash over cap) is a possibility. We need to see the numbers. A company buyout plan for the value of each pilot's A plan has some strong appeal. I'd rather have that money NOW (in installments) and put it to work.
This is real leverage whether the TA passes or not. The company will want to deal with this issue. If the TA passes, we work this as a separate issue as an LOA after extensive study, presentation, and voting. If the TA fails, we re-engage once the dust settles. The long term savings justifies additional pay increases IMO.
In the short term: there is a manning concern, retirements are looming, peak is around the corner, they have the money, surcharges are increased, UPS has a strike vote looming (posturing but it matters in public opinion), etc.
The union reps that blocked the study and release of retirement OPTIONS to the pilots prior to the end of negotiations failed us. The MEC and NC failed to see the wisdom of doing this. It's tough to say my negotiating committee and my union speaks for me when we were not properly represented with the options. Personally, a 6 year contract with all of the work rule concessionary givebacks is unattractive to me. Voting NO means we reject what we see. Simple as that. The big money is in retirement liability. The company will not ignore this.
I hate to break it to you but the company offers a very bad deal. Pilots are no more qualified to manage their pension money as professional money managers would be qualified to fly a B777 or MD11 around the world. Yes the B fund is nice to have in addition to the A plan, but it can never replace it.
09-19-2015, 07:43 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 150
We would be complete fools to ever consider getting rid of the A plan...you know how much investment you would need to draw 130,000 a year, without touching the principle? How about a mismanaged fund, a stock market crash, a greedy fund manager that's convinced he can make you more money, only to lose it on a gamble. I've seen too many pilots at different airlines retire with a lump sum and wind up losing their investments in the market and having to go back to work, broke. And why have so many people already conceded the fact that the A plan is gone in the next contract??? Are you kidding??? No, it's not going away, and yes, if we don't get a bump this time, we will next time, by gosh...I dont like this TA, but I sure as heck don't want us going back in and trying to dump the A plan in favor of a higher B plan, foolishness...
09-19-2015, 08:22 AM
#34
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
I'm not sure any review of the "enhancements" of our contract can even come close to rationalizing the lose that the A plan freeze represents. The companies naked attempt to keep the oldest from leaving en mass may backfire, we will only know after the vote. In my opinion the cash payout for giving notice and staying till 31Dec lacks any meaningful meat and may have been one attempt too much to buy (a few) of us off to leave on thier terms rather than our own.
The only reason to even consider voting for this turd is the fear of what will happen next.... nothing
The company stalls, the NMB, in the pocket of industry, balks at letting the rights of labor move in the direction unionists died 100 years fighting for, the right to withhold services, without either the state or hired goons to stop them.
Be there no doubt, we loose and we loose big on this TA. You will never be able to replace the diminished value with a big enough "win" in your company or self funded B plan. The 1% increase in B contributions would be laughable if its repercussions weren't so serious . This TA represents the first serious reversal of fortunes by Fedex pilots in 25 years. Astonishingly, it comes at a time when the companies fortunes are on the rise. I can only shutter what to expect if they ever really feel they have a need to reduce expenses. Hopefully I won't be here to see it.
The only reason to even consider voting for this turd is the fear of what will happen next.... nothing
The company stalls, the NMB, in the pocket of industry, balks at letting the rights of labor move in the direction unionists died 100 years fighting for, the right to withhold services, without either the state or hired goons to stop them.Be there no doubt, we loose and we loose big on this TA. You will never be able to replace the diminished value with a big enough "win" in your company or self funded B plan. The 1% increase in B contributions would be laughable if its repercussions weren't so serious . This TA represents the first serious reversal of fortunes by Fedex pilots in 25 years. Astonishingly, it comes at a time when the companies fortunes are on the rise. I can only shutter what to expect if they ever really feel they have a need to reduce expenses. Hopefully I won't be here to see it.
09-19-2015, 08:28 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: MD
Posts: 194
Neither FH nor PG understand the time value of money. That's a certainty. It's a diminishing commodity/benefit. Looking at alternative solutions is appropriate but the TA as is ... represents mediocrity.
A full buyout of the A plan for each pilot gives me today's dollars ... That coupled with a significantly enhanced B plan - I'm interested. You might not be.
If you want to go down with the A plan sinking ship of diminished value based on COLA, then that should be your choice.
It's not BS nor is it foolishness. They are options based on intelligence and reality. But feel free to beat your chest and yell at the top of your lungs - once you disappear under the waves ... no one will hear you.
Isn't FH retired? Man I hope I've got better things to do in retirement than hang out here.
A full buyout of the A plan for each pilot gives me today's dollars ... That coupled with a significantly enhanced B plan - I'm interested. You might not be.
If you want to go down with the A plan sinking ship of diminished value based on COLA, then that should be your choice.
It's not BS nor is it foolishness. They are options based on intelligence and reality. But feel free to beat your chest and yell at the top of your lungs - once you disappear under the waves ... no one will hear you.
Isn't FH retired? Man I hope I've got better things to do in retirement than hang out here.
Last edited by GetRealDude; 09-19-2015 at 08:55 AM.
09-19-2015, 10:19 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
Originally Posted by GetRealDude
Neither FH nor PG understand the time value of money. That's a certainty. It's a diminishing commodity/benefit. Looking at alternative solutions is appropriate but the TA as is ... represents mediocrity.
A full buyout of the A plan for each pilot gives me today's dollars ... That coupled with a significantly enhanced B plan - I'm interested. You might not be.
If you want to go down with the A plan sinking ship of diminished value based on COLA, then that should be your choice.
It's not BS nor is it foolishness. They are options based on intelligence and reality. But feel free to beat your chest and yell at the top of your lungs - once you disappear under the waves ... no one will hear you.
.
Isn't FH retired? Man I hope I've got better things to do in retirement than hang out here.
A full buyout of the A plan for each pilot gives me today's dollars ... That coupled with a significantly enhanced B plan - I'm interested. You might not be.
If you want to go down with the A plan sinking ship of diminished value based on COLA, then that should be your choice.
It's not BS nor is it foolishness. They are options based on intelligence and reality. But feel free to beat your chest and yell at the top of your lungs - once you disappear under the waves ... no one will hear you.
.
Isn't FH retired? Man I hope I've got better things to do in retirement than hang out here.
I enjoy hanging around here when the truth is being distorted. I gain nor lose anything by the vote. It is just a simple choice between right and wrong. Just because you and Fred want to teach the pilots a lesson doesn't mean it has to be successful.Retirement Heist - Pension Fraud Book - Ellen Schultz
09-19-2015, 10:28 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
The B plan is capped as well.
DC is subject to an IRS limitation, combined values of 401 & B plan will reach it...especially if it's the 18% some advocate. under current CBA language, company contributions stop when you hit the cap(s).
see lec 100s letter from last fall
DC is subject to an IRS limitation, combined values of 401 & B plan will reach it...especially if it's the 18% some advocate. under current CBA language, company contributions stop when you hit the cap(s).
see lec 100s letter from last fall
09-19-2015, 10:40 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
Originally Posted by kronan
ROT on generating income from investments is 4%, so you need to accumulate 3.3-3.4 million to live without fearing outliving your investments
Never fly with a Doctor, and never invest with a pilot.
How does a pilot become a millionaire?
Give him a Billion dollars.
09-19-2015, 10:51 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MD CA
Posts: 705
I just saw the E-mail from DL Management and Pay Rates for all NON-Union Employees. 14.5% Pay Increase in one swoop. They got 4% last year.
That's more than a COLA of 10% over the last 3 1/2 years. Nice Work ALPO. I was ALPO for years, so glad they are in my rearview mirror.
That's more than a COLA of 10% over the last 3 1/2 years. Nice Work ALPO. I was ALPO for years, so glad they are in my rearview mirror.
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