Mid trip deviation bank peeled out
10-01-2015, 10:09 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 110
Mid trip deviation bank peeled out
d. All deadhead travel shall be classified into two categories, Front/BackEnd, and Mid-Trip. For the purpose of deviation bank credit, each category shall be treated separately. However, if a deadhead trip is changed or canceled by the Company, the associated deadhead bank monies remain intact. Within each category, a pilot’s bank credit shall be determined as set forth in Section 8.C.2.a. (above).
If a midtrip deviation is cancelled, the money stays in the midtrip bank. Even though it is intact, how does it help you if the category is treated separately? Only if you have another midtrip deviation. You can't apply that money to a cab at the end of a trip, or to parking or anything pertaining to the beginning or end of a trip.
What about the next month? Does it remain in the midtrip bank, unavailable to you in the front/back deadhead bank?
Beware of complexity.
More to come when examining the limits.
If a midtrip deviation is cancelled, the money stays in the midtrip bank. Even though it is intact, how does it help you if the category is treated separately? Only if you have another midtrip deviation. You can't apply that money to a cab at the end of a trip, or to parking or anything pertaining to the beginning or end of a trip.
What about the next month? Does it remain in the midtrip bank, unavailable to you in the front/back deadhead bank?
Beware of complexity.
More to come when examining the limits.
10-01-2015, 10:47 PM
#2
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 110
The following quote refers to bank singular. But we saw from the above that there are in fact, two banks.
We need to have this clarified. Do they intend us to keep track of two banks, mid-trip and beginning/end? Then apply half of the under used portion to the relevant bank next month?
You'll end up with thousands in your mid-trip bank that you can't touch for your front/back bank which is where you'll really want it.
In the next TA, don't break out the mid trip bank.
Page 127
The Company shall establish a deviation bank for each pilot for each bid period. i. The value of a given bid period’s deviation bank shall be equal to the value of: (a) the applicable fare(s) for the scheduled commercial deadhead ticket(s) for all trips flown during that bid period; and (b) the value of the applicable fare(s) for the scheduled commercial deadhead ticket(s) for recurrent training scheduled during that bid period (if any). ii. To the extent that the pilot’s allowable/reimbursable deviation expense claims for a given bid period are less than his deviation bank credit for that bid period, that balance shall first be reduced by half. Etc
We need to have this clarified. Do they intend us to keep track of two banks, mid-trip and beginning/end? Then apply half of the under used portion to the relevant bank next month?
You'll end up with thousands in your mid-trip bank that you can't touch for your front/back bank which is where you'll really want it.
In the next TA, don't break out the mid trip bank.
Page 127
The Company shall establish a deviation bank for each pilot for each bid period. i. The value of a given bid period’s deviation bank shall be equal to the value of: (a) the applicable fare(s) for the scheduled commercial deadhead ticket(s) for all trips flown during that bid period; and (b) the value of the applicable fare(s) for the scheduled commercial deadhead ticket(s) for recurrent training scheduled during that bid period (if any). ii. To the extent that the pilot’s allowable/reimbursable deviation expense claims for a given bid period are less than his deviation bank credit for that bid period, that balance shall first be reduced by half. Etc
10-01-2015, 11:39 PM
#3
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Joined APC: May 2005
Posts: 1,273
Originally Posted by PolicyWonk
The following quote refers to bank singular. But we saw from the above that there are in fact, two banks.
We need to have this clarified. Do they intend us to keep track of two banks, mid-trip and beginning/end? Then apply half of the under used portion to the relevant bank next month?
You'll end up with thousands in your mid-trip bank that you can't touch for your front/back bank which is where you'll really want it.
We need to have this clarified. Do they intend us to keep track of two banks, mid-trip and beginning/end? Then apply half of the under used portion to the relevant bank next month?
You'll end up with thousands in your mid-trip bank that you can't touch for your front/back bank which is where you'll really want it.
Q: Are there separate deviation banks for Front/Back End Deviations and Mid-Trip Deviations? If so, are there additional restrictions on how the money in each bank can be used?
A: Deviation fares are separated into two categories Front/Back End and Mid-Trip for bank accrual purposes. This protects you if your front/backend DH is cancelled and a Mid-Trip DH is added. A pilot receives the higher bank of the scheduled, at block out or as flown. There are no restrictions on how the banks can be used.
10-02-2015, 12:03 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 110
Thanks Sluggo
Words have stretched into bungees.
"For the purpose of deviation bank credit, each category shall be treated separately." TA
I'm trying to think how we needed protecting in the case they mentioned.
Wouldn't current verbiage that doesn't separate the banks take care of it more understandably.
That it would require language like this is rather startling.
If I were an arbitrator, I'd be...
Oh, I just can't go there.
Words have stretched into bungees.
"For the purpose of deviation bank credit, each category shall be treated separately." TA
I'm trying to think how we needed protecting in the case they mentioned.
Wouldn't current verbiage that doesn't separate the banks take care of it more understandably.
That it would require language like this is rather startling.
If I were an arbitrator, I'd be...
Oh, I just can't go there.
10-02-2015, 04:11 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 711
This separating of banks for accrual, but can spend either is a good thing. I've been bitten by the old way before. Now, you earn what's originally on your pairing, block out, or as flown.
Example: front DH of $800 to ANC, back DH from NRT for $2500--that's how your pairing was originally and how you blocked out. Original bank total $3300. While you are on trip, you get revised to add a SIN-NRT DH for $4000, and operate NRT-ANC, and DH from ANC for $800. That's how you ended the trip. Total bank $5600.
How it can bite you. If you spent $1000 getting to ANC and were planning on spending $2000 getting back from NRT, you were planning on being $300 under bank. But with the revision, you already spent $1000 positioning, you took scheduled mid trip for $4000, and have now spent $5000 of your $5600 bank and you can't get home on the $600 left from ANC and must spend $200 out of pocket.
Rare event you think, but I've had this happen to me at least 4 or 5 times over the past 6-7 years. Getting a mid trip DH added can kill your total bank.
This change is good and solves this problem.
Example: front DH of $800 to ANC, back DH from NRT for $2500--that's how your pairing was originally and how you blocked out. Original bank total $3300. While you are on trip, you get revised to add a SIN-NRT DH for $4000, and operate NRT-ANC, and DH from ANC for $800. That's how you ended the trip. Total bank $5600.
How it can bite you. If you spent $1000 getting to ANC and were planning on spending $2000 getting back from NRT, you were planning on being $300 under bank. But with the revision, you already spent $1000 positioning, you took scheduled mid trip for $4000, and have now spent $5000 of your $5600 bank and you can't get home on the $600 left from ANC and must spend $200 out of pocket.
Rare event you think, but I've had this happen to me at least 4 or 5 times over the past 6-7 years. Getting a mid trip DH added can kill your total bank.
This change is good and solves this problem.
10-02-2015, 06:31 AM
#6
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Originally Posted by Raptor
Example: front DH of $800 to ANC, back DH from NRT for $2500--that's how your pairing was originally and how you blocked out. Original bank total $3300. While you are on trip, you get revised to add a SIN-NRT DH for $4000, and operate NRT-ANC, and DH from ANC for $800. That's how you ended the trip. Total bank $5600.
How it can bite you. If you spent $1000 getting to ANC and were planning on spending $2000 getting back from NRT, you were planning on being $300 under bank. But with the revision, you already spent $1000 positioning, you took scheduled mid trip for $4000, and have now spent $5000 of your $5600 bank and you can't get home on the $600 left from ANC and must spend $200 out of pocket.
How it can bite you. If you spent $1000 getting to ANC and were planning on spending $2000 getting back from NRT, you were planning on being $300 under bank. But with the revision, you already spent $1000 positioning, you took scheduled mid trip for $4000, and have now spent $5000 of your $5600 bank and you can't get home on the $600 left from ANC and must spend $200 out of pocket.
Had a simular thing happen. CDG STBY's, scheduled with operate to CDG and DH home. Was revised with a mid trip DEV (from MEM back to CDG) and further revised to loose the backend DH. Lost all backend DH money.
This loophole in how our DEV bank is managed could bite you if you were counting on (or had already spent) DH money on a trip and events you couldn't control (revision while operating) added a mid trip DH. Bottom line; this fix is a good thing. 
10-02-2015, 08:59 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by Raptor
This separating of banks for accrual, but can spend either is a good thing. I've been bitten by the old way before. Now, you earn what's originally on your pairing, block out, or as flown.
Example: front DH of $800 to ANC, back DH from NRT for $2500--that's how your pairing was originally and how you blocked out. Original bank total $3300. While you are on trip, you get revised to add a SIN-NRT DH for $4000, and operate NRT-ANC, and DH from ANC for $800. That's how you ended the trip. Total bank $5600.
How it can bite you. If you spent $1000 getting to ANC and were planning on spending $2000 getting back from NRT, you were planning on being $300 under bank. But with the revision, you already spent $1000 positioning, you took scheduled mid trip for $4000, and have now spent $5000 of your $5600 bank and you can't get home on the $600 left from ANC and must spend $200 out of pocket.
Rare event you think, but I've had this happen to me at least 4 or 5 times over the past 6-7 years. Getting a mid trip DH added can kill your total bank.
This change is good and solves this problem.
Example: front DH of $800 to ANC, back DH from NRT for $2500--that's how your pairing was originally and how you blocked out. Original bank total $3300. While you are on trip, you get revised to add a SIN-NRT DH for $4000, and operate NRT-ANC, and DH from ANC for $800. That's how you ended the trip. Total bank $5600.
How it can bite you. If you spent $1000 getting to ANC and were planning on spending $2000 getting back from NRT, you were planning on being $300 under bank. But with the revision, you already spent $1000 positioning, you took scheduled mid trip for $4000, and have now spent $5000 of your $5600 bank and you can't get home on the $600 left from ANC and must spend $200 out of pocket.
Rare event you think, but I've had this happen to me at least 4 or 5 times over the past 6-7 years. Getting a mid trip DH added can kill your total bank.
This change is good and solves this problem.
While I normally do not use the urban dictionary, the definition of policy wonk seems to explain a lot
with these new threads.
10-03-2015, 04:36 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 107
Instead of Loose language we got looser language and side deals that we will figure out after we vote yes for the TA. Just watch the union videos, and listen to their talking points, don't think for yourself. The great and all powerful union knows what is best for you. Ignore the day time cubicle flyer behind the curtain. Just trust the union YES votes--I promise they don't have their own agenda.
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