BlackKnight

The point is not to pick a singularity in either contract- it's to point out that they rejected a deal and signed a deal on/about an 18 month timeframe. I haven't scoured the new deal or asked my buds what they think of it yet, but just asking 'da googles (for example) they went from an 8% pay raise to an 18% pay raise in the new contract.

However, the exact numbers aren't important, it's the timing and improvements.

Fdxlag2

As long as we dont ignore the relative overall value of each contract to its members and not focus solely on the "gains".

kc10/c130

That couldn't of been you, it was someone named fdxlag not fdxlag2 😅.
For the record, I hate all passwords and logins. My kids just love to watch me staring at the screen like a dog watching tv.
And yes, we are all connected. Us to UPS negotiations, Delta no TA to the entire industry, etc etc.

CloudSailor

Yes, that their contract - with an airline filing Chapter 11 bankruptcy just 10 years ago - didn't even become amendable until January 2016. And, that the argument made here and on Jetflyers wasn't only that it would take Delta and Southwest, and therefore us, years to achieve a new TA, but that it would likely be WORSE than the original TA.

Rightseatpro

Agree, each new contract from company to company has an effect on the whole industry. If our last contract wasn't ratified, it's possible DAL wouldn't have the deal they have now.

It's taken years to climb out of the lost decade. It will take more and this is just really the first round of new contracts (industry wide) after the economy has (arguably, at least the financial market) recovered.

busdriver12

Sounds like GiggityGoo, coming back to pretend he's FedEx pilot.

Seems like the moderators would consider it against the terms of service to create a similar screen name, and pretend that you are another poster. I guess he thinks we can't see the post count, the joining date, and the difference in the screen name.

Fdxlag2

Seriously, I have no idea what email I used to create the FDXLAG account. I have tried every email I thought I ever used and APC does not recognize it. Therefore I can not recover my highly treasured FDXLAG account. If it makes you feel better, if you go to PFC today's highly interesting top story is something about air operations safety news.

kronan

Should be pretty easy for the NO votes to find a post indicating that the hypothetical 2016 TA payrates would be numerically lower (worse) than CBA 2015.

Should be pretty easy for the NO votes to find a post indicating that the work rules in a hypothetical 2016 TA would be worse than those in CBA 2015.

What I tend to recall is that most of the yes voters thought a regrouping from a NO vote would be in the 3-6 months with a likely TA some time summer of 2016 effective prior to peak 2016. Not a company panic here's everything you want have the TA effective by Dec 2015 had the narrowly passed TA vote gone the other way.
And it's only with hindsight that we know there wasn't a black swan economic event in 2016. By definition, we can't predict a black swan but you just never quite know what the future will bring. God knows virtually no one would've bet on a Trump presidential victory 15 months ago.

But, how is that likely timing any different than the time it took Delta to regroup?

And I do tend to remember arguments that delaying a year was unlikely to result in so great an improvement to counter the time value of money.

UPS future pay increases are 3%. SWA's are 3%. Delta's 3-3-4%.

Does that strengthen or weak our arguments with the NMB that our future pay raises are insufficient?

CloudSailor

You will keep going back to the hourly pay rates as the end-all. It was about the QOL Section 6 Openers, and retirement. That's why, even after all the sales pitches from the NC, and the fear of economic issues in 2016, it only got a 57% approval from our crew force.