Raptor

Hey all, I know this is all in the contract and the ALPA pocket calendar, but I'm still very confused because the language and process is hard to decipher. In all the years I've been here, I've only had these situations happen once or twice to me.

Recently, I've talked with several people who have had the overage or substitution choice. I'm confused if there's a best strategy to maximize pay? Or is it always situation dependent? Did the "take the overage, substitution or OTP options" change on this contract? I don't know if it's because the schedules are tighter on duty time or what, but in any case, here's the scenarios:

1) You are on a trip that turns into another trip. Your first trip goes over by 4 calendar hours, but conflicts with your turn into trip which is a typical 6 CH trip. What's better--take the small overage and go into sub? Elect OTP? If you take the sub, can you just jumpseat home and if you do, and don't take the phone call assigning you a trip while you are in the air on the way home, what happens--you simply lose the sub or do you get a letter?

2) You are on a trip that turns into another trip. Your first trip goes over by 3 CH (with some of that at 150%) deep into the following 6 CH trip. Take the overage of the first trip, decline sub and elect OTP, etc? If you accept the sub, does that mean that you don't get the 150% of the first trip that now goes into the turning trip's footprint? Would your answer change if the following trip was 8 or 9 CH that was dropped?

3) You are on a trip that turns into another trip. Your first trip goes over by 5 CH (with some of that at 150%) deep into the following 4 day, 24 CH trip. Same questions as above?

In short, can someone please help me understand if there's always a best option or strategy, any gotchas, etc? I'm not having this happen to me, but I think this is one of my weakest areas of knowledge of the CBA and I would like to finally know what to do under different scenarios. After all, there's not much time in 30 minutes to figure it out and not doing it "right" can be costly.

Also, can anyone provide a short primer and short and long sub windows and if the considerations differ between them? Have there been any scheduling matters/union articles on this process?

Thanks!

Rock

I don't believe there were any significant changes between the 2011 and 2015 CBAs with respect to overage and substitution pay. I like the ALPA calendar flow chart, but there is really no substitute for going step by step through the applicable sections of the contract.
The first step is to determine if you are even eligible for SUB based on how you got the trip being dropped (Section 25.H.2.). If not, it is dropped without pay and you get overage, if you are eligible for overage (Section 4.BB.1.)
If you are eligible for SUB and/or Overage, you have a decision to make. But I really don't think there could be a "best option" because there are simply too many variables.
Instead, I think it is important to know exactly where to look in the contract to do your own calculations. Again, the ALPA calendar flow chart is helpful, because it tells you right where to look. Unfortunately, too many people don't. Sections 4.L. (Substitution), and 4.BB. (Overage Accrual and Compensation) are the two key sections for what you are describing. From there, you have to crunch the numbers and do the math to determine your best option. If you decide to accept SUB, you need to go to Section 25.H. and determine what your SUB windows are, and the consequences of accepting or rejecting a SUB assignment.
Finally, you have to make sure your pay reflects what you are due to be paid based on your decision. Again, it seems like a lot of guys don't take the time to do this. It doesn't take a lot of time to fill out a paylog. But you don't get paid for extra duty periods or disruptions if you don't. And sometimes, that pay amounts to more than what overage or sub pay nets you.
One thing I have to remind myself of when I encounter one of these situations, is I have time to make a decision. Time enough to open the contract and step through my specific variables. The "correct" answer depends on whether I need more time at home that month or more money in my paycheck the next month.

busdriver12

I am no expert, but I'll give you my opinion. I'm sure someone will pipe in if they think I'm wrong. It is always situation dependent, in my perspective, and I don't think the sub/OTP changed in the new contract, except for the bit about when you can reject it prior to your availability period.

If you go into sub, then I don't think you will get the overage. It's one or the other. In this situation, I think it would be better to go into sub, because the overage would only be one credit hour at 150% vs the 6 hour trip, and if you were blocking in 4 hours late, it's probably too late for them to assign you something. You will be getting in past your assignment window. I have never heard of people getting a letter, you aren't required to be on the phone during the availability period, it's not like you're on reserve. But if they can't get ahold of you, I guess you would lose your sub eligibility. However, it is generally unlikely to be called at the last minute if your trip unexpectedly gets extended to take a sub trip. And if you're blocking in 4 hours late, your availability period is over (4 hours past showtime).

You get one or the other. My answer would change based upon which way I was going to get paid more. In your scenario, 3 CH at 150% would be less than the 6 credit hours dropped, so I would not take the overage, I would just keep it like it is and stay in sub, get paid for the 6 hour trip. If it was a 8-9 hour trip, even better.

Well, I would probably just stay in sub. All of that 5 CHs would be at 150%, however, it wouldn't trump a 24 CH trip. Then again, you'd be into the long sub window. Hopefully someone else can explain, but I think if they don't assign you anything in the first availability window, you get guarantee of 18 CH, even if you turn down everything after that. Which is still more than the 5 CH at 150%

Can't help with the other questions. It is very confusing. I can tell you, if you want to decline sub, I think you have to do it before the trip you are being subbed on ends. And if you also want to go into OTP, you have to do it before SHOWTIME of that trip being subbed, or you can't get it. Had someone tell me they lost out on OTP because they were waiting for scheduling to process their declining the sub, on hold on the phone, and in that two minutes on hold, they went past the showtime of the trip. Should have just done it in VIPS.

Adlerdriver

No, based on my experience, you need to do the math each time. Hub turn type scenarios may be a little more cookie-cutter, but as you pointed out, these events are infrequent enough that it's probably worth calculating the pay.

The OTP option seems like it would work better with shorter trips. You have to have the flexibility to actually put that time back into your schedule at some point. When I've had a 40 to 50 hour trip get dropped due to the extension of an earlier trip, I never really saw OTP as an option. I already planned to work those days of the month. Open time is scarce anyway and trying to find room later in the same month (when I wanted to be off) or squeezing extra time into a future month never seemed like a viable plan.

One "gotcha" involves the deadline for choosing Sub or Overage (deadlines for OTP are different). If you're going to choose Sub or Overage, do not make this election with scheduling until your trip is complete (or you are as certain as possible there will be no more changes). You have until 30 minutes after block in from the extended trip to make your choice. One time I opted for overage while still out on the extended trip. Sub for dropped trip in conflict went away as expected. Extended trip revised back to original footprint. No overage. No Sub. Me S.O.L.

Overnitefr8

You also have to consider extra duty period pay if applicable if you're extended out for a lengthy time.

bipolarpilot

Got a call for an interview with FDX soon so I'm looking on this site for some info, not familiar with OTP. Can anybody fill me in?

busdriver12

OTP is open time priority. If you select that, you can get paid 125%
(I think that's what it is), and get priority makeup, for trips that you had that were cancelled.

However, this is trivia, and there's no reason you need to know anything about that until you get hired and get through training. There are plenty of other things you could be thinking about before your interview. Good luck.

MX727

I wanted the money and time off, so I always took the overage, sub and jumpseat. If they called, I lost sub (no letter), but I wanted the day off anyway. If they didn't call (far more often than not), I won! Haven't had this situation come up in a few years though since I rarely hub-turn now.

Adlerdriver

isn't it one or the other? If you take the overage, you don't get the sub.

Sometimes there is overage available between the trips that doesn't overlap with the trip in conflict, even if you opt for SUB. But if the trips overlap, you can't take overage and get SUB. At least that's how I've always understood it to work.

Rock

You are correct. If the trips overlap, you get the difference between the actual credit hours added to the revised trip, minus the CH hours of the conflicted trip (converted to SUB) paid as overage. (e.g. 8ACH added to revised trip minus 6SUB hours of dropped trip equals 2 hours paid as overage)
So in total for that situation, you should get paid the original CH of the revised trip. Plus credit hours added to that revised trip. Plus SUB pay for the dropped trip. And the hours described above will be paid at 150%. Finally, submit a paylog for either resulting disruptions or extra duty periods.