Aviationluver

I was wondering if anyone knows any good techniques to perfectly line up from base to final?

Some of the students I teach are still overshooting and some undershoot and I'm running out of different explanations and was wondering what advice you have.

Also, I was wondering how pilots who fly faster jets or heavy iron do it? For example, I know in the larger Boeing planes there is a ground track trend vector "noodle" that you can use that helps you make a nice 90 degree turn without overshooting or undershooting.

I'm talking about doing this pure visually without using a navaid like a localizer or VOR on the field or GPS.

Thanks.

Lagoon

As a student and now a pilot, it has always helped me to focus on the far end of the runway I'm landing on. Once I have that in sight, my hands and feet just follow my eyes like a goalie looking into a punter's eyes to predict the ball's trajectory.

Wings level on base, end of the runway in sight, and I instinctively turn to final at the right time. Then I shift my focus to the numbers.

When cross winds are strong, I sometimes overshoot, but I got used to compensating for that.

Another thing that helps, is to instill a lot of confidence in the student to the point that their threshold for discomfort and anxiety at that critical stage of the flight is decreased. That's where practice and positive reinforcement come into play.

When that happens, time seems to slow down. It's a bit of a personal philosophy I have tried to understand as I went through my own training process.

Now when I'm on final, I'm very comfortable, I'm ahead of the airplane as it were, to the point that time seems to move at a fraction of the speed. So that relaxes me and gives me the opportunity to make small and effective adjustment that make for a more accurate lining up.

Training on high wind days has helped me hone my landing skills, too. Practice, practice, practice.

Adlerdriver

Well, keep in mind that most guys in a Boeing are probably getting vectors to final and using the ILS to intercept final approach. That intercept is usually happening a lot further out from the runway as well. We do practice some contact type flying in the sim to work on hand flying basics. I've never used the "noodle" in the way you describe, mostly because as you said, a visual pattern is usually just that.

As I got more experienced instructing, especially the basics we all start to just "do" without thinking too much, I found it useful to take careful mental notes of what I was thinking, seeing, using for references, etc. It might help if you just went and flew a few patterns by yourself and got some really good specifics you can give your students. MSL altitudes at various points on base and the turn to final. Local pattern visual references and references using the runway in relation to the aircraft windscreen/side-windows/structure, etc. Maybe you already do that.

Using your downwind track to get an idea of what the winds are doing to you is always a good first step to avoid over/under-shoots. Hopefully that will get your student aware of how he needs to adjust his turn to final to compensate. When I did visual patterns in a fighter, something that helped was to pick a visual target on the ground out on final on the extended runway center-line where you wanted to be wings level at a 3:1 target altitude (300' per mile). I'm not sure what you teach for where you want the guy to arrive on final after turning base. If it's a 1/2-mile out, then 150'.... 1 mile, 300' and so on. While on downwind, distance on final can be approximated using the big ruler you've got out there on the ground. If the runway is 6k' long, then 1/2 it's length out on extended center-line is an approximate 1/2 mile final. Find a tree, clearing, house, whatever that can serve as his target for where you want him to arrive on final. Knowing what altitude he wants to arrive over that target also tells him how much altitude he has to lose from pattern altitude turning base until that point on final. You can give him some check points between those two locations in MSL altitudes to gauge how his descent is going.

So at least now your student has a ground target and an altitude to hit over that target. Timing the turn to final by having a no-wind reference using the numbers position in relation to the aircraft structure can also be helpful. That will give him a starting point that can be adjusted as required for winds.

Not sure if all that helps.

UAL T38 Phlyer

Saw this plenty in 15 years in the T-38.

Too often, they justed wanted to "hurry up" the turn, due to overshooting innumerable times before.

Problem: the plane is pointed at the runway...but they aren't on centerline.

I used this with great effect:

"Make the runway point at YOU at about the same time YOU point at the runway."

Hell, I still use it myself!

Teranga

When I was a flight instructor in the Navy, I taught "Far End, Near End, Airspeed."
Far End - gave the general idea of where we need to be going (in case of parallel runways)
Near End - shifting my eyes from the Far End gives me two points in order to make an extended centerline; Near End also brings the aimpoint into focus to adjust my glidepath.
Airspeed - "Airspeed is Life." If I've heard it once, I've heard it a hundred times.

I use the same scan even today. Nighttime is a little easier because you have the entire (lighted) runway for alignment.

METO Guido

With final approach 70 kts or so they're half jet speeds but same fundamentals apply. Turning final at 500'? Note the RW touchdown target cuts an attitude line though the plexi at a consistent point on each approach and stays there until transitioning to the landing maneuver. Too high on the glass? We're below path. Touchdown spot visual riding lower than normal above the glareshield? Getting high. Of course, the touchdown target also moves consistently from the right, toward your left shoulder, on each (std.) circuit base leg. Time roll in/out with the centerline running straight up your right knee completing the turn. Once you got it down, take a mental snapshot of how that fit your mind's eye. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Crosswindy day? RW stripe still runs up your knee while pointing the spinner at the upwind edge. One thing I've noticed, even on big iron with those new to it, some stay visual too much. Make scanning inside/outside a tic-tock habit, pays off big later. And yes, it's ok to be a compulsive centerline tracker.

Wanna get Navy all crazy? Unless the engine quit, if you're slow, ADD POWER.

C130driver

Adding power while slow is a 2 step process in multi engine props, especially with blown lift, you have to lower the nose. Add power and do nothing else, all you'll do is get above glideparth and maintain airspeed. The airplane when trimed is trimed for a given airspeed. Pitch and power

Subieguy14

From what i can remember, lining up base to final on center line was really just feel. More your students do it, then better they should get. I dont recall my instructors teaching me any tricks or anything to get lined up perfectly with center line

sourdough44

I'll go with the 'mostly by feel' after doing it a number of times. I like to be real mindful of the wind, especially when stronger. That could be the effects as one turns off the downwind, or as one gets lined up with runway centerline.

I may use a varying AOB to make it all work out, avoiding any need to 'wrap it up' with a overshooting wind. Once in final, point into the wind some, depending on strength.