BS Flag. You have it backwards. Instructors specifically go to ATP to get hours as quick as possible. All instructors at ATP care about another 0.1 hours in their books. At a local FBO, you are much more likely to get a lifer instructor, or someone who cares about instructing enough to do it for a living (thus making a decent wage). How many career instructors are there at ATP? 0. How many instructors at ATP had never touched an airplane 6 months ago? Way too many.

It is also my opinion. In fact, I am willing to bet it is just about everyone's opinion on this site (with the exception of wannabe's who were brainwashed by ATP marketing, like LAFF).

There is nothing special about ATP. You fly a lot. If you fly twice a day at a local FBO, you could do your PPL in 55 days (faster than ATP's 60 day course). All you do at ATP is fly a lot, and they train you to bare MINIMUM standards. At a local FBO, they train you to become a true aviatior/pilot.

Arguing with you is like arguing with SkyHigh. Most people just ignore you because they know you are wrong. The only difference is some of these newbies may not know the difference, so it is important to raise the BS flag on ALL of your posts.
But hey LAFF, if you want to waste an EXTRA $20,000-30,000 dollars on training at ATP, that decision is yours. I won't lecture you about THROWING YOUR MONEY AWAY. I will however be skeptical if you are sitting in a cockpit next to me, knowing you were trained to the bare MINIMUM standards.

 

Yes, it does!!! I'll study hard and have fun too. Definitely will use all available resources that are at my disposal. Thanks.


atp

 

BS - FBO CFIs don't train you to become true pilots. Come on - you really think that? You can fly as much as you want at an FBO. Unfortunately, all you are doing is wasting your time and money. Chances are your CFI will be happy to log another 0.1 on your dime.

There is nothing wrong with flight academies turning out pilots in 90 days.

-LAFF

 

APC users need to read DE727's bio, he has modestly made it his signature line, when considering his posts.

I for one truly value is insights / opinions on aviation. I'm honored to considerer him a friend.

-LAFF

 

I have to disagree:

My CFI has upwards of 13k hours and has no intentions of leaving.Great person all around,very experienced,patient,fun to be around,great stories, you name it. I have learned alot from him and yes I fel I am becoming a true pilot because of him also.

Avaiton is like any other job when its boiled down to its simplest form; there are bad apples in every bunch.

I have nothing against ATP,I even considered going there at one time.If you train in 90 days or over 2-3 years, it comes down to what you make of it and what you put into it. Just my .02

 

ATP trains you to pass a check ride, nothing else. I've flown with a few of their zombie pilots. It's downright scary.

Yes there is. Don't forget that 50 people in the back are counting on that 300 hour wonder pilot not to auger it in when the left engine is on fire, the trims have run away and the captain is incapacitated.

LAFF, I can tell that you belong at ATP. A kool-aid drinking irrational pilot with no real world experience and a ton of cash to waste... yep, prime ATP material.

 

dang you guys are hatin

 

First off, there is no reason for people to judge how and where you became a pilot. That does not determine how well or poorly you fly. I have flow with a handful of guys who instructed for years, became fo's for 2, now they are captains, and they are not very good pilots. I went to ATP. I am not ashamed to say it. Do I agree with everything they do? Of course not. But, their system works. So some of you are saying that because a pilot becomes an instructor in 90 days, that doesn't make him or her a good pilot. So does that mean students who go through the 10 month program are better pilots, even though they are alotted the same amount of flight time. I would say no. Experience is not only a time frame, but an hours of an aviator are. So lets say a pilot has flown for 10 years and has 2000 hours. Does that make him better than someone who has flown for 5 years and has 2000 hours, no. In aviation, it is about currency. While I was flight instructing, I had some students who came in more frequently than others, and they were the better pilots for the most part. Even though both guys had just around the same total time. Does an instructor know everything after 90 days, no, but neither does the guys who took a year to get his ratings. Most people start instructing with total time just over 250 hours. What makes the guys who took longer better? Nothing. The frequency of your flying experience makes a big difference. When I was in the Navy, I flew with a guy who was a Hornet driver, he told me that if he doesn't fly over a 7 day period, he feels extremely rusty. This is a winged Naval Aviator. Now how do you think a young student pilots feels if he/she doesn't fly for a week. I don't know what makes alot of you judge ATP students and instructors this way, but you have no idea of what you are talking about. Honestly, what makes a good pilot is his/her god given talent. That is the case with all professions. I have been told by almost every captain the I flew with that I was the one of the best if not the best FO's they had ever flown with. They all told me that I would make an excellent captain. I am not saying that to make myself feel better, but I am a product of ATP, that just goes to show that 90 days doesn't mean anything. I don't know if some of you are p@#sed off that you spent alot of time as a student and flight instructor and wish that you could have done it the ATP way or what. I have never judged anyone about where they did there flight training, only on how they can manuever the aircraft and the ability to make sound decisions.

 

"but you have no idea of what you are talking about"

What I'm talking about is going from PPL to CFIMEI in 90 days and thinking you have the seasoning, experience, and background to be a great CFI to the next 90 day guy that comes along.

"I don't know if some of you are p@#sed off that you spent alot of time as a student and flight instructor and wish that you could have done it the ATP way or what"

(Mod insert: Please don't try to bypass the filter by changing the way a word is spelled)

Not ticked off. I'm simply expressing my opinion based on being a CFI since 1980, having had a less than impressive experience with ATP, having a good friend who had a less than impressive experience with ATP (after I recommeded the place to him), and having read many things, pro and con, since aviation websites were invented. It's like your saying anybody who has a negative opinion about ATP is simply wrong. That's laughable, after all the posts I've read over the years.

 

Think about this. The 90 day program. That is 90 days of aviation. That is all you do, is study, fly, take writtens, and checkrides. When you were getting your instructor ratings, how long did it take, and did you fly and study everyday? I am not saying you didn't, I am just curious. Some of the guys who come out of ATP think that they are gods gift to aviation. There are instructors and pilots like that everywhere. By no means did I think that I was a great instructor day one, who is. Anyone who says that they were the best instructor they could be just starting out is lying. It took me a little while to totally feel comfortable. After I was finished with the 90 day program, you don't go straight into instructing. I was working in the dispatch office for almost 2 months. Most of us down there continued to study waiting for a location that we had requested to open up. We studied and went into the sim alot. We also flew with students who had just gotten the PPL. We taught them basic intruments skills while they built up their cross country time. In order to instruct in the multis for ATP, you have to take a check with the chief pilot. He is not the most experience aviator out there, but he is a former Cobra pilot in the army, has all of the ratings for both helos and fixed wing aircraft. Has something like 5000 hours just in the seminole. So his resume isn't so bad. But like I said before, I don't agree with some of the ways that ATP operates, I have my own negative opinions about some things there, and some of the times, the chief pilot isn't available to give check rides, so I think that there are some bad apples that make it through. But you can't tell me that in all of your years of aviation, you have never looked over at the guy next to year and thought to yourself, how did this guys make it through training?