Flying Ninja

I've shot a few approaches into KDED during my INST training and I have to say there's no reason to shoot ANY approaches into KDED for practice. It's just too frackin' dangerous! Daytona Approach releases you 2-3 NM from the FAF and you're on your own dodging all kinds of traffic from smash-n-goers to those damn parachute ops that think they own the airport. After shooting approaches into KDED twice I told my crew there's no reason to shoot nonprecision approaches into KDED when KDAB is right there with all sorts of approaches and you're under 100% radar service. KOMN is there as well as KEVB.

It just goes to show you that despite Riddle's safety culture, they really couldn't care less. KDED for INST approaches should be banned. So this just adds to the list of things that make Riddle a bad choice.

TankerDriver

So how is this different than any other approach to any other non-towered airport in that area or anywhere else in the country for that matter? They are ALL busy airports. OMN and EVB are only slightly better. Unfortunately, you may not have the luxury of shooting approaches to airports with 100% radar service and the training must be accomplished. You work with what you are given, you get your poop together, make very specific radio calls to nauseam so people know where you are and what you're doing, keep your eyes open, have some SA and exercise good judgement. You know, all those things a PIC should be doing anyway. I've probably done that approach over a hundred times and never had a problem with going missed early enough to either turn away or climb up over pattern altitude. Obviously when aircraft are coming at you head on off the opposite runway, it makes sense to knock the approach off early. The wreckage of both aircraft were at .25 and .5 miles from the departure end. I'd say that's taking the approach a bit too far, cruising into a busy pattern at an MDA of 640 feet.

BS. The school has been flying over 100,000 hours annually for at least the past 10 years and I only know of 3 fatal accidents involving their aircraft. Two of which I posted above and one of which was a suicide by one of their IP's who decided to steal a Seminole and take one last flight (solo) before playing kamakazi pilot into the numbers of 7L. So, 2 accidents per every million + flight hours?? Their safety record is pretty impressive, so I don't know what you're getting at with this. In that NTSB report, it clearly explains that ERAU made a few recommendations, though non official, to the city of Deland about the frequency bleed-over and congestion. I'm sure it takes a lot of bureacracy to change a frequency. Shortly after that accident, Deland's CTAF miraculously changed to 123.075. Unfortunately, people have to die for lessons to be learned and problems to get fixed. Do you think DED is the only other busy non-towered airport in the country with an instrument approach?? Should we ban them all?

FNFAL

Dude you sound like a 300 hour riddle boy for sure. Most nontowered airports in the world are way way way less busy than DED. Have you ever been out of the daytona area for more than just a cross country. DED is a dangerous environment. I have seen jumpers fall through the instrument approach courses way more than once. but im sure that see and avoid works just fine with those meat missles. besides that fact that there are 3 billion students flying in a 30nm radius of daytona.

Flying Ninja

TankDriver,

I guess you're just a natural born IFR guy. My skills are not as elite as yours going into IFR training. Despite what Riddle thinks, *I* decided it was not worth killing myself for to shoot approaches into KDED. And you know what? I made it through INST training and got my rating just fine. I knew my limitation and I had common sense to know that there are plenty of other airports with eyes in the sky to add an additional layer of safety to my flights. So am I being too careful or did you inherently have a Invulnerability hazardous attitude? Anyway, I'll give you the statistics about Riddle, that they do have a pretty safe record. But that doesn't mean they've covered it all.

TankerDriver

LOL. 300 hour Riddle boy, no. A 2500 hour USAF boy flying tankers with over a thousand of that as a CFII in that airspace. Does Iraq count as a cross country? Because I've done trip that quite a few times.

My view comes from the instructor pilot mindset, not an instrument student mindset. In reality, you are not the person in charge when you've got your CFII next to you during your instrument training. If the CFII wants to go to DED because he/she thinks it's beneficial for YOUR training, then you go to DED. He/she is responsible for your life. You talk like you were the only one in the airplane during your instrument training and chose to play it safe and go elsewhere. Was this initial instrument training or were you getting recurrent? If you had that option, more power to you, but sometimes it's not efficient to travel 30 minutes to another field when you can stay in the local area and shoot 5 or 6 approaches with holding and the whole 9 yards.

FNFAL

I didn't say you are one...I said you sound like one.

FlyerJosh

Nope. If the CFII wants to go to XYZ because they think it's beneficial to my training, then they suggest it. It's MY MONEY and MY TRAINING. I'm responsible for my life, and I won't let any instructor take me too far out of my comfort zone, whether beneficial or not... That's my choice and if it ends up costing me more money in the long run, so be it.

N6724G

ERAU is not "just" and aviation school. It is a University with many majors including Aeronautiacl and Aerospace Engineering. Space Studies, Math, and aviation.
So, ERAU is not a "pilots" school as many think. Its a regualr university like any other with an array of majors. Many aspiring pilots get ERAU confused with Flight Safety or something

rightseater

TankerDriver...i'm guessing u haven't been to ERAU recently...Kevb and Komn are both now towered airports. Why would one want to do the VOR/GPS 23 into deland when u can do a VOR into OMN, or DAB...and an NDB into EVB? KDED is home to skydive deland...the worlds busiest drop zone, and craziest skyvan/twotter pilots. RAA is based, there and so was Tab Express...so, you'd have a few riddle planes, a few RAA planes and a king air or two all in the patern(500' above the other planes), jumpers, a jump plane doing whatever it wants, but that old VOR 23 approach is a must?! I don't think so.

and yes riddle has a great safety record, but using its great safety record as an excuse to enter yourself into a situtation which any normal person would look at as suicide is a very hazardous attitude!

FNFAL

lol what a cheeseball line, i love it. Im more from the "lets not have a midair today, if we dont have to" mindset.

I cant remember all the surrounding airports down there anymore, but i do remember DED being one of the biggest clusters i had ever partaken in. the only thing more scary than a student is the cfii mork sh#t sitting next to him. looking back on my instructor days the difference between what i knew and what i though i knew is astounding.