MikeB525

This may seem like a rant (it's really not; just a question), but why is the FAA so anal about how and when an individual can earn money or recieve "compensation" as a pilot? I totally understand minimum flight experience and demonstration of skills, but in general why are they so concerned? I'm not sure if I agree with the whole pro-rating thing either, where I have to pay part of the rental/operating cost. I think it all makes time building needlessly difficult and in some cases the rules seem kinda pointless. Any thoughts/answer??

ERJ135

Yeah thats what everybody says. His checkrides are really intresting. On my multi commercial he pulled the mixture on the ground roll with a sheet of ice for a rwy. Needless to say we went right off the rwy. Lucky the rwy is snow blowed and it was light fluffy snow so he got out and checked the airplane. We started the engine and taxied out and took off. That was probably the worst checkride I ever had. The door poped open twice after takeoff and just a disaster but I passed. I thought for sure I failed after going off the rwy but, I think he realized it was his fault.

Chris

mistarose

Which advisory circular may help with this question?

GliderCFI

Probably so the insurance people know when to blame you as not being qualified when a passenger bumps his head. Hahaha

rickair7777

AC 120-12A

But really, this whole subject should be about 90 seconds of your oral.

Probably the only aspect of this that realistically applies is that common carriage requires point A to B transport...this means you can give all the local sightseing tours you like, for hire, as long as you return to the airport of origin (insurance permitting). At least that was the way we always interpreted it...

mistarose

Thank you very much.

mike734

Just remember, nobody cares how you get your experience down the road. If I were to do it again I would not hesitate flying for pay if I could get the gig. Screw the FAA. They are only interested in protecting their own butts in the name of public safety. The NTSB recommendations are constantly blown off in favor of the airlines/aircraft manufactures to the detriment of pilots and the public. Don't let their BS rules hamsting your career progression. Just be safe and don't be stupid and get over your head.

You have to know how to answer the question on your oral but after that, just fly. By the way, questions about rest and pt.135 have no place on a commercial oral. If you are asked those kind of questions, answer that you will obey the FOM (Flight ops manual) of the operator and will learn the specifics of the type of operation when you get employed by an operator. The rules are widely varied and depend on many variables.

WEACLRS

In 14 CFR Part 1.1 Definitions and Abbreviations - you will find a definintion for Commercial Operator:

"...means a person who, for compensation or hire, engages in the carriage by aircraft in air commerce of persons or property other than as an air carrier...Where it is doubtful that an operation is for compensation or hire, the test applied is whether the carriage by air is merely incidental to the person's other business or is, in itself, a major enterprise for profit."

The FAA is VERY LIBERAL in interperting this statement. The scenario presented would be "for compensation and hire" because the flight is not incidental to the commercial pilot, but for the pure benefit of the passenger. As someone else said in the thread, opportunity for free flight time has been interperted in the past by the FAA as compensation to an aspiring commercial pilot.

That said what can a basic 250 hr commercial pilot do? That's found in 14 CFR Part 119.1 (e) - it contains a list of activities including student instruction, ferry (aircraft only, not pax) or training flights, banner towing, crop dusting, etc. - 119.1 (e) (1) - 119.1 (e) (10). Anything else most likely, but not necessarily, will fall under Part 121, 135, or 125. This is why the FAA has a fairly easy process (for the FAA) under Part 135 to obtain a "single pilot" 135 certificate to allow carriage of passengers, and it does require the PIC have more time than the basic 250 hours.

Your CFI should be able to go over this in detail with you.

There are AC's on this...I will look for them in a moment.

WEACLRS

It's AC 120-12A. You can download it from FAA dot Gov. The FAA used to have a great word doc of frequently ask questions for part 61, 91, and 141. It gave their interpertations on many subjects. But it appears to have been removed from their website. In fact it looks like a lot reformating of information is going on on their website since I last had to search it.

Hope that helps. I know your DPE will be looking for you to respond with some knowledge of common carriage, holding out, and the activities listed under 119.1 (e) when he starts with Area of Operation I, Task A - Certificates and Documents, 1.a. ... and on and on...

Oops. I should read closer. I see rickair7777 has already given you the AC. And I agree - it should be one question and about 90 seconds max of conversation.

mistarose

Thank you WEACLRS for your detailed response.

Let me verify that I understand you correctely.

Part 119.1, and Private Carriage operations done under Part 91, and also 125 according to the circular are the only operations that a Commercial Pilot can do legally without a special 121, or 135 something or other certificate.

And I find it interesting that a single pilot 135 cert. can be obtained fairly easily, is it just a general 135 cert. or is it just permission to do a single flight? So for example, if I (a commercial pilot, current in all regards) am sitting in the hanger minding my own business, and someone asks for a commercial pilot to fly them in their OWN airplane back home, I would need a 135 cert?

I know you mentioned the question, is it incidental to their business as being imporant of course, in this situation, or a similar one, would it matter if the flight was or was NOT incidental to their business, and would it matter if I (the pilot) was compensated just for the costs of the flight, fuel etc, or that plus some extra money just for doing the job...

thanks, this is turning into a helpful discussion!