Commercial Checkride
#21
Originally Posted by mistarose
And I find it interesting that a single pilot 135 cert. can be obtained fairly easily, is it just a general 135 cert. or is it just permission to do a single flight? So for example, if I (a commercial pilot, current in all regards) am sitting in the hanger minding my own business, and someone asks for a commercial pilot to fly them in their OWN airplane back home, I would need a 135 cert?
Seems like grasping to me but they give the checkrides.
Remember laws and regs were made for lawers not pilots.
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737/FO
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by Punkpilot48
A couple orlando FSDO check airman and even our schools POI interprets you sitting in your hangar or a hangar or an office at the airport as advertising you are a comercial pilot willing to fly for anyone anytime. (advertising , holding out, common carriage)
Seems like grasping to me but they give the checkrides.
Remember laws and regs were made for lawers not pilots.
Seems like grasping to me but they give the checkrides.
Remember laws and regs were made for lawers not pilots.
Last edited by WEACLRS; 02-07-2006 at 07:03 AM.
#23
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737/FO
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by mistarose
...
Part 119.1, and Private Carriage operations done under Part 91, and also 125 according to the circular are the only operations that a Commercial Pilot can do legally without a special 121, or 135 something or other certificate.
Part 119.1, and Private Carriage operations done under Part 91, and also 125 according to the circular are the only operations that a Commercial Pilot can do legally without a special 121, or 135 something or other certificate.
Originally Posted by mistarose
...So for example, if I (a commercial pilot, current in all regards) am sitting in the hanger minding my own business, and someone asks for a commercial pilot to fly them in their OWN airplane back home, I would need a 135 cert?
There are various levels of 135 certificates. The least complex is a single-pilot 135. Most small FBO's will have one so they can fly charter in one of their more advance single or mulit-engine airplanes. The certificate will specifically list the pilot (usually just one or two) and the airplane. The next time you're at your FBO ask if they have a single-pilot 135 and if you could see the actual certificate. Single-pilot 135 certificates are easier because you don't need quite all of the various manuals, training programs, op specs, etc. required of larger part 135 and part 121 operations. You still need some of them, however.
Last edited by WEACLRS; 02-07-2006 at 07:06 AM.
#24
Okay, I am sitting down at my Commercial EOC Oral exam, and the guy asks me, "If some random guy walks in with an airplane and wants a commercial pilot to fly him and his airplane back home because he does not like flying at night, I offer to take him.
Is this operation legal or not? The way I have been taught at my flight school up here in Washington, is too determine who has "operational control," in this case I do not have operational control, the guy with the airplane is arranging everything, im just flying. Is this right or wrong, its enough to interpret the regs.
Also I have been told that our Chief Flight Instructor wants too hear that this IS a legal operation, not requiring a 135 cert...
Is this operation legal or not? The way I have been taught at my flight school up here in Washington, is too determine who has "operational control," in this case I do not have operational control, the guy with the airplane is arranging everything, im just flying. Is this right or wrong, its enough to interpret the regs.
Also I have been told that our Chief Flight Instructor wants too hear that this IS a legal operation, not requiring a 135 cert...
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737/FO
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by mistarose
Okay, I am sitting down at my Commercial EOC Oral exam, and the guy asks me, "If some random guy walks in with an airplane and wants a commercial pilot to fly him and his airplane back home because he does not like flying at night, I offer to take him.
Is this operation legal or not? The way I have been taught at my flight school up here in Washington, is too determine who has "operational control," in this case I do not have operational control, the guy with the airplane is arranging everything, im just flying. Is this right or wrong, its enough to interpret the regs.
Also I have been told that our Chief Flight Instructor wants too hear that this IS a legal operation, not requiring a 135 cert...
Is this operation legal or not? The way I have been taught at my flight school up here in Washington, is too determine who has "operational control," in this case I do not have operational control, the guy with the airplane is arranging everything, im just flying. Is this right or wrong, its enough to interpret the regs.
Also I have been told that our Chief Flight Instructor wants too hear that this IS a legal operation, not requiring a 135 cert...
The scenario you described sounds like noncommon carriage (119.3 Definitions), ie, you are not holding out to others. However 119.23(b) - Operators engaged in passenger-carrying operations...with airplanes when common carriage is not involved - states "each person who conducts noncommon carriage (except as provided in 91.501(b) of this chapter) or private carriage operations for compensation or hire with airplanes having a passenger seat configuration of less than 20 seats...shall (1) comply with...subpart C of this part; (2) conduct those operations in accordance with the requirements of part 135 of this chapter...and; (3) be issued operations specifications in accordance with those requirements.
This is the reg you are potentially running afoul of. Notice it doesn't specify whose airplane. It just says "airplanes". I'd ask my local friendly FAA Operations Inspector before conducting the flight...and I would get his name, number, and make very good notes.
A couple of more things to think about beyond the regulations. Would his insurance company cover you on the flight from a liability standpoint with you as PIC? Probably not...unless it was instruction. If you had an accident or incident, you might be liable for the damages. Most likely his insurance policy would restrict another pilot flying the airplane as PIC without their consent.
Last edited by WEACLRS; 02-07-2006 at 10:09 AM.
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737/FO
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by mistarose
...The way I have been taught at my flight school up here in Washington, is too determine who has "operational control," in this case I do not have operational control, the guy with the airplane is arranging everything, im just flying. Is this right or wrong, its enough to interpret the regs...
Pilot in command is defined in Part 1.1 - "means the person who: (1) has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight; (2) has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and (3) holds the appropriate category...
You as the commercial pilot (assuming the aircraft owner is just a private pilot) will be PIC and you do have operational control. The order in which Part 61 describes pilot certification is not random, ie, private - commercial - ATP - CFI. It's in that order for a reason. My job description as a regional airline captain and our company's Flight Operations and Procedures Manual quotes these definitions verbatim. And as PIC I don't arrange to buy the airplane, maintain it, pay for it, even put it in position for it's scheduled flight. I just fly it.
#28
Originally Posted by mistarose
Okay, I am sitting down at my Commercial EOC Oral exam, and the guy asks me, "If some random guy walks in with an airplane and wants a commercial pilot to fly him and his airplane back home because he does not like flying at night, I offer to take him.
Is this operation legal or not? The way I have been taught at my flight school up here in Washington, is too determine who has "operational control," in this case I do not have operational control, the guy with the airplane is arranging everything, im just flying. Is this right or wrong, its enough to interpret the regs.
Also I have been told that our Chief Flight Instructor wants too hear that this IS a legal operation, not requiring a 135 cert...
Is this operation legal or not? The way I have been taught at my flight school up here in Washington, is too determine who has "operational control," in this case I do not have operational control, the guy with the airplane is arranging everything, im just flying. Is this right or wrong, its enough to interpret the regs.
Also I have been told that our Chief Flight Instructor wants too hear that this IS a legal operation, not requiring a 135 cert...
If he's a rated pilot but uncomfortable with the conditions of a specific flight it is TOTALLY legit for a CFI to go along as a paid safety pilot/baby-sitter. The FAA would far prefer that than another "continued VFR into IMC" event.
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