nick@FL350

I looked under 61.51 to find out if being a safety pilot for ifr practice counts as being pic or sic. Which one is it and which part under far's? Thanks

Jesrober

My DE looked at my logbook and saw I had PIC time when I was acting as a safety pilot and when I was flying with a safety pilot. He asked me what you have to do to log PIC. You have to be the one manipulating the controls. So in other words the safety pilot can't log PIC. Then if you think about it you can't really log SIC because a piper warrior doesn't require a second pilot. Then he explains that when you go under the hood your flight then does require a second pilot so that the correct way to log it is SIC for the safety pilot. I've look at the FAR's and it doesn't really seem to straight forward but this was his take on it. I figure the guy giving me my tickets can't be wrong. If in doubt call the FSDO.

NE_Pilot

From what I had gathered, you can log it as PIC or SIC, it all depends on what you agree on. You can log it as PIC since you are the one responsible for the safety of the flight, and he would log PIC since he is the sole manipulator of the controls. But should something, like a violation, and you log the hood time as PIC, it is you who gets investigated for the violation while the other guy was under the hood.

However if you log it as SIC, then you don't have that amount of responsibility. Plus, you can log it as SIC time, since flying under the hood requires two pilots, according to the FARs.

You have to agree to what it will be logged as, and you will be the sole authority of the flight while he is under the hood. It is very complicated and worded very poorly. It's one of those gray areas.

rickair7777

You can "log" anything you want...

But SIC DOES NOT EXIST in an airplane that is not type rated for two pilots. If you log it, it will mess up your total when you apply to a real aviation job.

You can CERTAINLY log PIC as safety pilot. The other guy must be under the hood. So on a 2 hour flight, you could realistically log 1.7 safety pilot PIC. Always leave that .3 for taxi, takeoff, and landing (which are rarely performed under the hood). Also technically you can't log safety pilot time in IMC (no hood required) so don't log any IMC while doing safety pilot. You do need at least a private pilot in that airplane category & class.

But for christ sake, don't EVER log SIC unless the airplane type REQUIRES it....unf*cking your logbook (after you get rejected at your first airline interview) will take WEEKS.

mistarose

I agree with the last two comments, and on Rod Machado's page, it says the same. Take a look.

http://www.rodmachado.com/Articles/S...20Pilot%20Time

Jesrober

He says that the saftey pilot can only log SIC. It says flat out that there is no way you both can log PIC. But log whaterver you want. That looks like a good site for some questions thanks for the link.

rickair7777

Go read it again, but read BOTH of his paragraphs on safety pilot.

Like I said you can "log" anything you want, but in professional aviation there is no such thing as SIC in a C-172, warrior, or any other single pilot airplane (there are a few biz jets which can be operated either single or dual pilot, so that would be the exception).

Rod Machado is a GA guy and not necessarily familiar with the airline end. I think what his article was getting at was that you can act as safety pilot in an aircraft class in which you hold a Private (true), even if you are missing an endorsement required for PIC (complex, high-alt, tailwheel, etc). A GA guy can maybe log this time as "SIC" for his own ego padding, but it is not something that an airline will give you credit for. And they will ****ed off if your logbook doesn't total up the way THEY want it to. In my opinion if you really wanted to log non-PIC safety pilot time it should be total time only...you are performing a legit flying duty in the aircraft, but it is not the SIC duty required in a two-man airplane.

mistarose

Rod basically says this:

Both can log PIC if:

Both pilots are rated to fly the aircraft.

The pilot "under the hood" benifits from the time he spends under the hood. (so basically person under the hood needs to fly and navigate or something to benifit and improve BAI flying).

If person under hood is sole manipulator of flight controls, and person not under hood is Responsible for the flight, both may log PIC.

Example flight:

Person A (private pilot)

Person B (private pilot with Instrument)

takeoff: both pilots visual, only one may log PIC.

In air, not in IFR conditions: Pilot under hood is sole manipulator of controls, pilot not under hood is responsible for flight, both may log PIC for this portion.

In air, in IFR conditions: Pilot under hood may still be sole manipulator of controls at Pilot B's discretion... However, since Pilot A is not instrument rated, he may not log any actual, or PIC/SIC time for that portion that is in IFR conditions. In this case, the appopriately rated pilot would log the actual and PIC time.

landing: both pilots visual, only one may log PIC.

Airlines know that people log time this way, specifically to build multi-engine time. They approve of it.

Regardless of my interpretation of the Regulations, it is simply a interpretation with support from the majority of airlines, the majority of CFI's building multi-time, and by Rod Machado. Log the time if you are comfortable with doing it, if not, simply do it the way you deam appropriate.

Hope this helps.

mregan

What if its a Part 135 flight, and the airplane does not require 2 pilots, do you/can you still log the flight time, just as flight time, and not landings or approaches, while the other pilot is the PIC?????? As long as you dont log it as PIC, then can you still log it is what i am trying to ask??? Any suggestions would help. The airline in which I interviewed with this week seemed to think I should have logged it, but I didnt. It s proabably about 100 hrs worth, all mutli time too, however I wouuld have to make an entry in my log book of 100 hours ??? Wouldnt that send red flags? any answers and advice would be appreciated.

Slice

Which airline is that?