rickair7777

Is it single-pilot (unlike a CRJ)? That would drive the mins up. The kicker is the 500 turbine PIC...they are going to need to lure some regional captains away from their current jobs...

C152driver

rickair,

I just took a look at the DayJets website, and it seems that they are targeting themselves pretty heavily at the business traveller. Here is something that I clipped from their FAQ page:

"DayJet has not yet announced pricing for its "Per-Seat, On-Demand" services. However, due to the breakthroughs in aircraft and computing technologies offering greater operational efficiencies and economies of scale, our "Per-Seat, On-Demand" services will be priced at a modest premium to full-fare coach airfare. For about the same cost as an overnight trip (including airfare, hotel, and per diem), you will reap all the benefits of corporate jet travel for a fraction of the price."
http://www.dayjet.com/Company/FAQs.aspx

And also:

"DayJet travel is a productivity tool geared toward the people doing the work, not just those leading the organization. Designed as a "no-frills" utilitarian service to drive productivity gains for mid-level managers in mission-critical positions, "Per-Seat,
On-Demand" jet services are ideal for:

Regional sales forces that need to visit customers at quarter’s end.

Field technicians who must quickly service their customers’ equipment.

Attorneys that must regularly give depositions at county or state courthouses.

Real estate developers that must survey property in rural locations.

Business development managers who visit regional franchise stores every month.

Small consulting firms that need to respond to last-minute client requests.

With DayJet, more timely and efficient business travel is just on the horizon. Isn’t it about time?

Learn more about DayJet and "Per-Seat, On-Demand" jet services by visiting our Resource Library"
http://www.dayjet.com/Resources/Busi...s/Default.aspx

I think you are right, they are definitely targeting business travellers, but they are pitching convenience instead of service or luxury. That may be a tough sell, IMO. The passengers will still have to show up at their "hub" airports to start their trip. They are touting their advanced, computerized scheduling program as the solution that will make all of this hang together and make money.

It seems to me that some of these customers are currently using the "regional" airlines for some of this type of travel.

C152driver

DayJets intends to operate single pilot, but will start off with two.

Their Pilot's FAQ page makes for interesting reading:
http://www.dayjet.com/Careers/Pilots/FAQ.aspx#faq7

Home every night.....

SkyHigh

Sounds like a sweet gig that could get a lot of us working again. I wouldn't mind flying a VLJ single pilot. Employers could possibly afford to pay more since they only have to pay for one pilot. It probably would be a lot of fun as well. Sign me up !!!

SkyHigh

rickair7777

I think the VLJ's are going to try to provide service from one small airport to another, which will let the pax start closer to home/work, get him closer to where he wants to be, and avoid commercial hub hassles.

I think the market they want to open up is between satellite airports that don't have scheduled service, or if they do it would have to go through a large hub (ie a regional).

usmc-sgt

This could be a good thing for people like you Sky, with those mins it is out of reach to most except the regional Capt with a few years in the CRJ, and a few others miscelaneous pilots out there. I feel it will really appeal to the furloughees who did multiple years at the majors and are extremely qualified, it will be a way to possibly restore some hope in aviation for them. They can be back in a jet with a company that proposes a great QOL (although that is to be determined) seems like a great gig.

I wonder though..with mins like that, they will have to offer a decent income, i am guessing in the 70k+ range or else why would a pilot who is left seat in a CRJ or FO at a major going to find it an attractive offer? Maybe the QOL and the benis and whatever else they would offer would have to over shadow the pay a pilot with those hours could potentially bring in. I know 70k is not a ton in the aviation world but it seems respectable considering you are flying an aircraft smaller then a kingair that seats 1/4 the people. Who knows though...im just rambling..

rickair7777

Compared to a regional captain job, I suspect a VLJ job would stack up like this:

Advantages
Maybe home every night, but this depends on how they operate. If they use a very dynamic, complex scheduling system you could be on the road for a week.

Disadvantges
No airline non-rev.
Limited jumpseat.
Probably a lot of sitting around with little flight time. This means that you will work all week and get Sunday off as opposed to timing out in 3-4 days like airline guys.
babysit pax.
Probably have to clean the airplane.
Security risk (no cockpit door!). This is not far-fetched...there are a lot of nutbags out there!
Possibly single-pilot (no fun in a jet if things go wrong). Actually, I doubt insurance will go for that.

The right amount of money could overcome the drawbacks, but that would affect the economcs of the operation. In my mind, the regional wins hands-down for the same money. The only draw MIGHT be going home every night, if that will be feasible with the way they operate.

usmc-sgt

A few more disadvantages i thought of.
- If you are left seat at a regional and enjoy it there you have at least a few years seniority and are on your way to a good base/line. It would be difficult to lose that.
-If you are at a major regardless, i could not see leaving there unless the company is in the dumps and the fear of being furloughed are a very real possibility. Once again, your foot is in the door and your seniority is being gained, why risk that.
-Those are the two other main points i see, For those reasons i dont know if i could see it being attractive to anyone else except those between jobs or on furlough. Seniority is an important thing if not the most important in QOL and pay and it would be hard to toss that away for an up and comer. I doubt it will, but what if this VLJ thing never goes anywhere? Although you have been adding to the log book you are back to the drawing board, gives one something to think about.

C152driver

Here's an interesting article on DayJets that a Google search turned up:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050505.html

I have been trying to clip some quotes from it, but for some reason it wont let me do it. But, it sounds like they will be heavily reliant on the "whiz-bang" scheduling software. It also sounds to me like they will be going for high utilization of the planes and price planning based on comparable airline fares (if available and applicable).

Their hub airports will be called "DayPorts" and will function as pilot bases. I am guessing that if you want to go from one of these Dayports to Podunk Municipal and back on the same day, you'll get a seat on one jet outbound, and another completely different jet will pick you up for the return trip. That would eliminate the ground wait for the crew and plane
http://www.dayjet.com/DayPorts/Default.aspx

The QOL that they are promising on their website certainly sounds good. However, they havent gone into operation yet, and my guess is that the "real world" might have something to say about it

CWU1919

VLJ's are garbage it doesn't take an aviation consultant or expert to figure that one out. They will clog up the airspace, fly in the same flight levels as the jets at slower speeds causing a headache for ATC spacing especially in the busier areas of the country, and the costs are not that eye popping to me. Eclipse fibbed when they said initially the 500 would be under 1 million, it's now about 1.3 and rising. It has a slow cruise speed, it's payload is pathetic, and many of these places like DayJets are delaying going into business and with that the orders of these planes because there are still a lot of concerns.Ok so VLJ's can supposively fly to out of the way airports that the airlines can't, but it's not cost effective.
My friend who flies corporate says that to charter any jet it cost at least 2000 dollars an hour just for the company to turn a small profit. You really think people are going to want to throw down that kind of money when they could fly the airlines for much less than that, the air taxi segment has never proven in my eyes to be an affordable means of travel and the VLJ isn't going to change that. If anything it is going to cause more problems. The training part is also not as simple and straightforward as the VLJ market makes it sounds. Like usmc brang up, insurance is going to be tough for owners and for those looking to sign on to the big air taxi ops trying to get out there those hiring mins are ridiculous. im all for modernizing aviation and improving the technology and the way it's done, but vlj's are about as lame and flawed as NASA's highway in the sky program, it might sound like a good idea at first, but in the end there will be plenty of problems.