rickair7777

I was talking about total time.

Agentessa

Great, thanks to everyone for replying, now it definitely makes more sense!

It's good to know I can't log sim time as total flight time, since, I would imagine, there are plenty of schools out there that claim it's legitimate..

Myself I'm not so worried about logging as much total time as possible at the point where I am now. I'm really looking forward to getting my CFI and instructing eventually, so hopefully I'll have an opportunity of building time (and knowledge ). Just want to be precise with logging the correct time in the logbook to avoid any problems with FAA or future employers..

As far as logging vs acting PIC, I'm more concerned about it from the responsibility standpoint: if my CFI makes a mistake/does something that violates FAR and I don't see it because of my relatively low experience, who is responsible and what my course of action should be.

So, if I understood correctly, CFI is the one who ACTS PIC and he has the final responsibility for the safety of the flight. Which makes sense. Is it still a good idea for me to file a NASA form in case there's some problem?

NoyGonnaDoIt

There's rarely a good reason not to file a NASA form. Aside from the potential protection from suspension resulting from a certificate action, the idea of the program is to collect data on safety. If something happens during a dual flight and you think the information, combined with similar incidents, would help to find ways to prevent that kind of situation in the future, you're just acting responsibly in filing a report.

On the responsibility standpoint generally - the FAA considers an instructor during a instructional flight to have the same responsibility as a PIC. But keep in mind that (1) there are situations in which the "student" (not a student pilot) is really the PIC and (2) the fact that the PIC is ultimately responsible doesn't mean that the PIC is the only pilot responsible. I'm sure some of the working pilots here can tell you of situations they know of where both the PIC and the SIC in a 2-pilot operation have been called on the carpet by the FAA.

Especially once you are a private pilot, you don't get to turn a blind eye to violations and hide behind your instructor. You mentioned a Class B violation as an example. It's a good one. Let's say you're working on your commercial and do one of the required dual cross countries and bust Class B airspace. Based on the overall situation, I'd expect the FAA to consider certificate action against either or you or both of you.

Planespotta

Do not cross anything out (messy) or use whiteout (suspicious).
Just make a new entry that corrects what's been entered incorrectly. Make the times/landings/etc. negative (or positive, if you're forgotten to log something) numbers, and explain what you're correcting in the remarks section. Mark the date the correction was made, and put an "X" mark in an easily-identifiable box so that you can find all your corrections when flipping through your logbook. This has gone over well with all the examiners and CFIs who have looked through my logbook.

When in doubt, ALWAYS fill out a NASA form!

Congrats, and enjoy every flight!

rickair7777

The acting PIC has a higher level of responsibility, but if you are flying the airplane, you will also be held to be responsible although to a lesser degree since you are a PP and he is a CFI.

This could mean that you might not get violated when the CFI is violated, but more likely means you would get a lesser punishment.

In fact a pilot does not have to even be flying to be culpable. A pilot who is sitting in the right seat "helping out" or even along for the ride in the back seat can be violated. It all depends on the circumstances.

But you can't get violated for something that you are not qualified to do...an IR student could not get violated for an IFR procedural violation (but you could violate for other aspects of the flight, like a botched landing or runway incursion).

Always fill out a nasa form if in doubt, they are free.

shdw

There are no documents written by the FAA, that I am aware of, with regards to corrections in logbooks. However, a logbook is nothing more than a legal record of your flight progress. It is much the same as legal logs used for experiments in engineering, designing of drugs, and other forms of record keeping.

The accepted method for these logs is to use 1 to 3 lines horizontally through the mistake followed by your initials next to it. This indicates that you have crossed something out and signed that you are the one that did so. This is what I apply to my logbook, doesn't mean it is right, but it is the best I have found.

In these forms of records, whiteout and other methods that make the mistake unreadable can also void the document. It essentially puts a discrepancy in the log that cannot be verified.

If it is an ambiguous error, one you may forget the reasons for, then a small note/comment might be helpful as well. If you put a 0.4 instead of 0.5, cross out and initial should suffice.

Ewfflyer

I've made an entry with a statement in the Remarks about fixing a problem I found. Usually my SE/ME times didnt add up to my TT or something obvious like that.

There is no official way of doing it. Everyone has their own preference. Some folks say never use pen to help correct mistakes. I whole-heartidly disagree with this as most likely you won't make mistakes, and you don't run the risk of things being goofed up. Other than that it's all good.

Agentessa

Thanks everyone for helping, once again. It's great to be aware of these things, I'm glad I asked - learned something new.


(On a side note: I'm surprised to see that most pilots are incredibly helpful to each other. It's not something I saw a lot in my 9-5 job that I traded in for flying..)

NoyGonnaDoIt

That I haven't heard. What I have heard is "pen for entries but pencil for totals," which makes a bit more sense.
There does tend to be a bit of camaraderie in aviation but you must have a heck of a nasty 9-5 job to notice that big a difference.