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Part 135 Part 135 commercial operators

Logging PIC time

Old 10-18-2009, 08:21 PM
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Question Logging PIC time

So I had a question on this that I was pondering. Lets say that I was flying in a caravan as part of a 135 operation in the right seat. Obviously it doesn't require a type. Lets say I have 1000 hours. I know you need the 1200 and all that stuff to be PIC while its under 135 for IFR.

Now lets say drop off the pax and return back empty. At that point it would be considered under part 91 so assuming I was the one manipulating the controls could I log the PIC time, even though technically the other guy was designated PIC by the company for the whole trip?

My guess is yes, but before I start penciling it in pen in the logbook I figure I'll get some other opinions.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:37 PM
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I say no: CFR 14 1.1. If the 135 operation will designate you as P.I.C. prior to the return flight then yes, but if you aren't listed as P.I.C. on any of the operator's paper work/release then no.

Pilot in command means the person who:

(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;

(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and

(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:30 AM
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a lot of debate over this, some say "according to part whatever, you are allowed to log it", or "according to part whatever, you are not".

From my interviewing experience, they don't care about whether or not you are typed, whether or not you are allowed to log it or CFR part ###..... for interviewing purposes, PIC means who's name appears on the release as the PIC

regardless of what the FAR/AIM says, this question might come up during an interview "you logged it as PIC, were you the actual PIC of this flight?" that won't be easy to explain

again my experience, you do whatever you want
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:01 AM
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I say yes, you can log it under 61.51, so I think it is easy to explain. The FAA says you can log it. Now the company may disallow that time, just be prepared to give them whatever they want/need.

I've done applications and interviews where they've even disallowed all flight instruction PIC time, where I'm PIC in every sense of the meaning. It's all down to the people you're interviewing with.
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:16 AM
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ppilot,

61.51 states:

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

At my company it is very clear who is the acting P.I.C. Although our FOs are allowed to fly from the left seat on empty legs and are typed in the aircraft, our flight-release, the duties and responsibilities, and even the paycheck make it very obvious who the operator has designated as the acting pilot in command. Even though I am fully qualfied to act as pic, I have clearly not been designated prior to flight as the acting captain while flying as a copilot.

IP
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:08 AM
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see, this is what I'm saying, some will say you should log it and some will say you should not.... you're going to get 20 more responses, half will say yes, half will say no....

I'm not saying log it or don't.... What I'm saying is PIC time looks really good on the resume, but keep in mind you might have to explain how you got that time during an interview...
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:47 AM
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log your flight time so that when you walk into any interview you have a quick explination of how you logged your time. I only log time that my company designates me as PIC, that way it is an easier explination (for me)during an interview.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:43 AM
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Yea, I have been doing the same debate in my head. Hmm...like you all said, I have seen and heard of it being brought up in interviews before. I should just do a coin flip.

Then the real question becomes heads or tails.
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by illinipilot View Post
ppilot,

61.51 states:

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

At my company it is very clear who is the acting P.I.C. Although our FOs are allowed to fly from the left seat on empty legs and are typed in the aircraft, our flight-release, the duties and responsibilities, and even the paycheck make it very obvious who the operator has designated as the acting pilot in command. Even though I am fully qualfied to act as pic, I have clearly not been designated prior to flight as the acting captain while flying as a copilot.

IP
Sure, agreed. But the Caravan does not require more than one pilot under the type certification or under part 91. So the pilot can log the time as PIC under the 'sole manipulator' part of the rule.

I'm not telling the poster to do this. Just saying that as I interpret it, that he CAN. In fact, I don't think there's any other way that he CAN log the flight time under pt 91, right?

Cloudchaser, one thing to think about...did you take a checkride? Unless you have a signed 8410 form showing proficiency and dated within the last 12 months, you can't log the 135 legs.
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ppilot View Post
Sure, agreed. But the Caravan does not require more than one pilot under the type certification or under part 91. So the pilot can log the time as PIC under the 'sole manipulator' part of the rule.
You may be right but my argument is that since the PIC has been designated by the company, then the other shall not log PIC time. I used to work for a night freight outfit that would hire SICs into barons and would only allow them to log TT time as they were working toward 135 mins. I also have a coworker who was kicked out of an ExpressJet interview (10 yrs ago so things may have changed) who had logged PIC time on the empty legs in the Caravan that he was flying.

Last edited by illinipilot; 10-20-2009 at 07:36 AM. Reason: I don't think the quote button always formats correctly :(
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