NoyGonnaDoIt

Depends onthe operation.

61.51(e)(1)(iii) allows a pilot to log PIC time "When the pilot ...acts as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted..." In addition, an ATP may log PIC time any time acting in command of a flight operation that requires an ATP under 61.51(3)(2)

So the "real" PIC can always log PIC time when he or she is in command of a required multi-pilot crew, whether the requirement for more than only pilot is because of aircraft certification or regulatory operational requirements (including OpSpecs that require 2-pilot crews).

Fortunately that's going to cover the PIC most typical 135 and all 121 operations. There are a number that can fall between regulatory cracks. For example, a Part 135 cargo flight in a single-pilot-certified aircraft without an OpSpec that requires (not authorizes, requires) a second pilot. In those situations, at least in theory, the only pilot authorized by the regs to log anything is the pilot who is doing the flying.

Seems silly, but remember that this is the same reg that allows more than one pilot to log PIC at a time.

GWW5

Yeah, have to read and digest this one a bit. It's tough when all of us are ATPs, Captains and type rated in the aircraft as well as the regs requiring two pilots.

Have to admit the way we did it flying C-12s in the Navy was easier. If you signed for the plane you log PIC time. Even if I was an instructor on board but not doing an instructional hop flying SIC I just logged SIC. This was the case even though I might have been flying with a junior Captain and most likely passing on knowledge.

So in situation 1 you are basically saying that 95% of the time whomever signs the plane out as the PIC should log it when the mission dictates two rated pilots are required and the other guy sucks it up and logs SIC. However, the FO could legally log PIC as well when he is manipulating the controls. That's too much time to keep track of personally. But hey..

In situation 2: If two pilots aren't required and it's a single piloted certified aircraft like our King Air 200s then only the time when actually manipulating the controls is logged as PIC. That makes sense.

Thanks again.

minitour

I think the differing viewpoints in this thread are directly related to some not understanding the difference between acting as PIC and merely logging PIC time and when each are allowed.

-mini

NoyGonnaDoIt

I think are are two reasons. One is, as you say, failing to really understand the FAA's difference. The other is confusing FAA rules with company practices.

To take it out of the Part 135 context for a moment, I know you've come across threads by UND private pilots saying that UND won't "allow" them to log PIC when receiving instruction. It's hard get past the idea that your school's (or your company's) rules are not the FAA's.

minitour

I haven't, but if I were at UND, I'd tell them to pound sand.

-mini

Gypsy Pilot

...amen...