CGFLYER

Struggling to start a piston engine for the first couple of times I can understand not knowing what the rudder is that's a little hard to believe. But I guess stranger things have happened.

SkyHigh

Contrary to popular belief the Cessna 182 does not have a yaw dampener. Besides that an F-16 is a single engine plane. No P factor ... ect... An F-16 guy probably does not need to use the rudder much. Therefore in the Cessna 182 this guy kept his feet flat on the floor.

Skyhigh

USMCFLYR

Well yes....all it takes to start (since that is what you were talking about) a Hornet is a checklist. I'm sure I could get you through it in ONE lesson Sky. I'll tell you what, if I'm lucky enough to get to fly again - I'll let you know how many lessons it takes me to get some aircraft started.

USMCFLYR

USMCFLYR

Now this part I can completely agree with and understand. Many strictly military only fighter guys might find it hard to remember that rudder. In my former (man....that hurts to say!) community - you didn't touch the rudders much in any *normal* phase of flight. On the other hand - when we DID use the rudders, it was probably to a much more aggressive, full throw back-and-forth, manner than what most civilian pilots would be accustomed too if you were trying to get the nose through or the airplane to swap ends on a dime.

USMCFLYR

USMCFLYR

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here FloridaGator. You seem to know what you are talking about, but are you saying that your MILITARY flight instructors were only 18 months out from the START of flight training and only had 200 hours? , and as another member pointed out - you aren't speaking about a FAIP are you?
If this was indeed your experience, then I would feel confident in saying that your expereince was indeed the exception.

^^^^^

Quote:

Civilian Instructors were EXCELLENT from my experience. Guys with a Thousand hours or so.

And from my experience, a HUGE majority of my instructors throughout the training command had similar expereince - the exception being a Harrier pilot who checked into Advanced Training right when I was leaving the squadron who had a TOTAL of 500 hrs! Any former Harriers pilots here at APC will know of some of those LEAN years back in the early to mid 90's for the AV-8B community. On the other hand - my civilian instructors were a majority of newly minted CFIs who had the minimum (or near) number of hours required and were a year or two in front of me in school and had been in the local area instructing to build their hours.
I helped my entire flight school class through instrument ground school too - extra help - but I certainly didn't NEED to teach them the entire syllabus. Matter of fact - MANY classes before and after me made it through class, and entire flying careers, without a single bit of extra help. I'm sure the case is the same with your training too. The statement about "NONE of the instructors had ever been in IMC" also raises questions. It seems that you once again are focusing your attention on a FAIP and making it sound to those that don't know any different that this would be the norm. Again - I'll use my own experience to give a different viewpoint.
ALL of my instructors - throughout 3.5 years of training had been in IMC at some point in their careers (and I never flew with a SERGRAD)

USMCFLYR

USMCFLYR

No...the student does not have to worry about it. It isn't his 'JOB'. His job is too handle the firehose of information coming his/her way. There is a complete staff who is VERY focused on the "COST" of doing the training and it is VERY controlled.

The only 'legal' way to get more training in the military flight training system is too 'unsat' a ride. There is a very defined syllabus, with a set number of flights, in order to get the information/training. We can't just say "oh well...you didn't do that well today, but don't worry, we'll just go out and try it again tomorrow" without doing a bunch of paperwork and getting it approved by the chain of command. Sometimes instructors will get creative and incomplete a flight that isn't going so well for weather (marginal) or range time (only got 10 bombing runs instead of the desired 12+ per flight for instance, etc... but every 1/10th of an hour is being tabulated and if you are the IP not generating X's, and incompleting or failing numerous students, then you'll find yourself explaining your woes to multiple bosses.

USMCFLYR

DILLA

Why do you consider Army flight training substandard? I know that the Army does not do a FW primer before sending its studs off to RW training. If that's why you think its quality isnt as great at the AF/Navy (USMC/USCG), well I can't comment on that having never gone through a military flight training program myself. If you're determining this based on its ability to "churn" out airline-qualified pilots...that's another conversation. As long as the Army produces quality pilots to perform their missions competently why would it not be rated as highly as the other branches' flight training programs?

AtlCSIP

I don't think he was saying there was anything wrong with Army flight training. I think he just didn't have the experience to comment on the Army training, but, for whatever reason, he did with the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps.

DILLA

Oh...perhaps. If I was an Army flyer, I may have taken offense to his comment.

samy

FG-I'm not sure which pilot training base you went to, but at mine, the ground school instructor was an AIS instructor, I'm pretty sure no one was teaching him jack. As for FAIPs, well, let's just say you're exactly the kind of student we looooooooved to get.