StudentFlyer

Thanks Blueskies21 and Planespotta... I appreciate the input.

Blueskies, on the "I'm still talked about in school" comment, I am meaning about how long my CFI checkride was, in that I am still talked about how long it was, and how I got grilled.

So to sum it up, I need to take positive criticism lightly, and definitely tighten up on myself as far as "being all that I could be" (striving for that improvement). Although not my intention, there seems to be a consensus on here that I come across as being arrogant and having a feeling of superiority. Some ways I can fix that are on orals, answer the common answer, and just accept the fact that I am not "that good enough," and know that there is always room to improve. Anything else that I could do? Thanks again for your input.

Thanks again, and while you guys seem worried that your criticisms may be harsh, I'm not bothered, I accept them as reasons for improvement.

shdw: this is a forum, not an English class. I am here for advice on how to fix my habit of busting checkrides, and as it has expanded, fix some fundamentals of my attitude and flying skills. You provided absolutely no advice, to what I can do, so please don't post here at all (ironic that someone else is blatantly being arrogant). If I really wanted to be arrogant-I could point out flaws in your "this is how it should be done" post, but will not, as I need to work on not trying to seem very good, thanks to this thread.

Ewfflyer

Well for starters, your first two paragraphs tell me a lot about you, which I think others have pointed out and I completely agree. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance, and your are far past the line. If you notice, no one really feels the need to be "What the F--ity F'n F'r" etc....

I have a feeling you started very young(And I'm guessing your maybe 18-20?) and had a nice advantage because of this, but if you are going to teach people to fly, you need to park that immature attitude in the closet and treat things seriously. Now I'm not saying don't have fun, because having fun and enjoying a job is the essence of how I operate. With that said, I also know when it's time to get serious with the task at hand when required, it's a fine balance that you can develope over time.

Finally, I do wish you luck in the future, and hope things work themselves out. Sometimes it just takes looking at yourself through other people's eyes

pilot1278

Just to confirm with some examples of checkride length...

Most of the Instructors I know, myself included, had intial CFI practical tests lasting anywhere from 6 to 10 hours, including the flight.

Mine in particular, was about 7 hours ground and about 1.7 hour flight time.

Of course, I failed mine halfway through when I became arrogant, and thought I could whip up a lesson plan without once referencing the PTS. Big mistake and one I frequently tell students as a lesson in arrogance.

Planespotta

Don't write down a list of what you have to do to improve - this is characteristic of a Type-A, high-strung, desperate-to-prove-themselves individual. When you feel yourself slipping into that old, faulted attitude, just recognize it and fix it until it's forced out of your system. You will never be able to write a list long enough to cut out every single attitude problem (nobody ever will), but the very least you can do is realize when things are starting to go wrong and then fix them.

Strive for improvement, but don't THINK about striving for improvement - just let it come from a desire within you. I know it sounds cheesy, but it's the truth. You can't imagine yourself doing something well and do it well at the same time; look at the performance of athletes, experienced aviators, etc., and you'll see it comes from a special type of mental/muscle memory. They don't think; they just do. That's the level of performance everyone should strive for. Don't think of a flight as a chance to prove yourself, but rather an opportunity to BETTER yourself.

How do you get to this level? You gotta challenge yourself. How will you know you're being challenged? You'll know you're being challenged because you'll feel it - it won't feel like just another run-of-the-mill flight or another ILS. You will feel your brain working. Challenging yourself induces humility, learning, and legitimately improves your skills. You WILL become a better pilot - that pilot you used to imagine you were.

StudentFlyer

Ewfflyer Understood. You'd probably think I was lying if I said that I rarely swear, so when I do, there is meaning to it. At the time of writing my post, I was pretty angry at myself-and to a degree, still am, but will say starting this thread asking for advice on how to improve myself was one of the best things I have done for my life. I got kinda tired of being patted on the shoulder and being told, "don't be so hard on yourself, stuff happens." But I felt I needed to find out what is going wrong, and stop busting checkrides. Although a CFI, I have not taught anyone yet, but want to strive to be a good instructor...all the advice on here will help

Yes sir, 22 in fact. Like most other pilots I know of, I got the "bug" ( ) when I was a toddler, started flying in middle school, finally got my private when I was 18.

pilot1278
Thank you for the advice, will take to heart

Planespotta
Thanks for the advice. I will take to heart what everyone has said on here, and will let you guys know of passing my CFII checkride, and finally, my MEI checkride.

shdw

StudentFlyer, I was merely mimicking.


For serious advice:

Get your head in the books, read, reread, and take side notes. Yes, write notes in the book. Make note cards and study your butt off. I am not saying you are ill prepared, or were. However, being overly prepared can boost your confidence.

Answer what you are asked. Repeatedly providing additional information can makes you look arrogant and, if you make a false comment in your ramble, can burry you. If you chose to give more information, do so with extreme caution.

Dress like you are applying for a job. Dressing professionally might make you act differently. At least khaki pants and a collared shirt. A full suit, on a hot summer day, is a bit over the top.

For additional study sources go to our thread on that. Many wonderful books on aviation were posted there last week, I believe. Even if you have read them, reread them. It will help.

StudentFlyer

Thanks shdw. I do all the stuff you said to do in your post, but will look into the book suggestion. In addition, I do have a tendency to provide additional information, which I know I have been told I think too complex and explain things too complex, which has buried me on my oral busts.

As for the flights, I need to find away to fly better, but also not to make a "fatal error," such as failing to do a final gear check or failing to press the "OBS" button to suspend a hold.

Again, thanks for you input.

Phantom Flyer

[quote=StudentFlyer;783478]Seriously, what the ****** is wrong with me? I study like hell and do my best in the cockpit to get knowledge tests in the upper 90's and go through oral exams very well, and yet, when it comes to doing the flight portion of the checkride, I somehow manage to make one small error and bust it-in fact, five errors.

DEs and an FAA fed have told me I am a exceptionally well pilot, and know how to fly the airplane, and I have been told by them and others that I am extrememly intelligent-to the point of even getting a DE and FAA fed on things they didn't know.

However, I busted the private on going outside of tolerances on a power-on stall, was successfully distracted on the multi and forgot to do the gear check one more time, busted the CFI oral after 8 hours (mind basically melted), CFII oral on a scenario I have never been taught, seen, or even heard of (joining a DME arc...not off of a IAF or lead radial), and now, the CFII flight, because I forgot to press the "OBS" button on the Garmin GNS430 when I was doing a GPS hold (so the GPS cycled to the IF, instead of remaining in the hold, an I couldn't for the love of me fix it).
[quote]

Just a quick comment or two StudentFlyer.

There are enough pilots who get "checkride itis" out there to fill several wide body aircraft on any given day. It happens to everyone to one degree or another. A couple of the suggestions offered so far should help.

Having been a sim instructor for years for a Part 121 major carrier, there are several things I find helpful in preparing for a checkride. You should have some idea of what is going to be expected on the ride. If not, ask your instructor or examiner. The examiner may not give you the exact sequence but you'll have a good idea of what to expect. Do some "chair flying" before the ride, somewhere where you can talk to yourself. Think through every maneuver and talk yourself through it, out loud, as you perform the maneuver sitting in a chair. Do it until it's automatic.

If you make a mistake, forget about it. Everyone makes errors and one mistake does not bust a checkride. Put it behind you and move on !

As for oral exams, I've given more than I care to think about and most examiners can tell within the first 15 minutes how prepared an applicant is. I've never heard of any oral lasting 8 hours. Either you kept digging holes, the examiner didn't know how to give an oral or you've exaggerated this statement. In any case, it would be over in two at the maximum; pass or fail.

Several comments suggest that perhaps you need to do "some evaluations". You make excuses and seem to blame other factors for your inadequacies and failures. That also shows up very quickly on an oral and especially a check ride. Your comment about "getting a DE or FAA fed on things they didn't know" has been addressed but it's the quickest way to a pink slip or a very long afternoon. Don't go there ! Even if the examiner makes a mistake, bite your tongue and move on.

You pat yourself on the back for being a good pilot and you probably are. Prepare yourself for the flight checks and you'll do well. BTW, ditch "the language" and the attitude. You'll be better off for it. Oh, learn how to intercept the DME arc from anywhere. It's part of many company PC and recurrent training checks.

G'Luck Mate

esa17

I have never understood the "dress up" for a checkride thing. As a result, I've never done it. I think it is much more important to be comfortable. If a shirt is what adjusts your attitude then the shirt isn't the problem, it's you're attitude. I'm not recommending that anyone take a checkride in ratty jeans and a ripped shirt but anything more than a polo shirt and a nice pair of pants is over kill in my opinion. Hell, I've never even taken a ride without my hat.

To the OP it sounds to me like you're trying too hard and getting ahead of yourself. I teach my students this mantra: "Fast is slow, slow is smooth, smooth is fast". Basically if you rush through then you'll be starting again. If you take your time and do it correctly then you'll get done with time to spare and a lot less stomach acid.

fjetter

You are correct in that your appearance shouldn't dictate pass/fail and your attitude. Where it does come into play is the first impression with the examininer especially if you have not met them before. This in addition to being appropiately prepared: logbooks ready to go, FTN #s, and x-c laid out says to the examiner quite a bit about you.

Does it make the checkride any easier or harder? Probably not but it does start off on the right foot, making that inevitable minor mistake easier to swallow. Buisness casual is what I have my students utilize as a dress code min. You may want to go buisness formal with the FAA for the CFI intial because they get a hard-on for that kind of stuff.