StudentFlyer

Seriously, what the ****** is wrong with me? I study like hell and do my best in the cockpit to get knowledge tests in the upper 90's and go through oral exams very well, and yet, when it comes to doing the flight portion of the checkride, I somehow manage to make one small error and bust it-in fact, five errors.

DEs and an FAA fed have told me I am a exceptionally well pilot, and know how to fly the airplane, and I have been told by them and others that I am extrememly intelligent-to the point of even getting a DE and FAA fed on things they didn't know.

However, I busted the private on going outside of tolerances on a power-on stall, was successfully distracted on the multi and forgot to do the gear check one more time, busted the CFI oral after 8 hours (mind basically melted), CFII oral on a scenario I have never been taught, seen, or even heard of (joining a DME arc...not off of a IAF or lead radial), and now, the CFII flight, because I forgot to press the "OBS" button on the Garmin GNS430 when I was doing a GPS hold (so the GPS cycled to the IF, instead of remaining in the hold, an I couldn't for the love of me fix it).

My flight instructors (past and present) have said that I overthink/think too complex, and possibly get nervous on checkrides...which I try my hardest not too do. Any advice? I have been told (and read on here) to brush failures off and learn from them, but seriously, 5 ******ing failures?...who'd want to hire me...

III Corps

First off, NO ONE should sit for an 8hr oral. I couldn't talk for 8hrs much less answer questions for 8hrs. For all my checks and giving checks, no oral over about 2hrs and that was with a true dipstick who wanted to show me how much HE knew.

The other non-standards seem to indicate workload problems. ie.. getting so involved in the moment that the next step is missed. Pacing and workload are very important.

I assume you are mentally flying these sorties before going to the airplane, right?

rickair7777

You might be a legit case of checkride-itis.

Since you probably have good piloting skills, here's an idea to deal with that: find an examiner who will give you the plan for the entire checkride on the ground and let YOU execute it in flight. Then you should try to ignore him and just conduct the flight. That way you're not getting distracted trying to interact with the examiner.

This worked for some non-aviation military training I used to do, haven't tried it in aviation.

floydbird

Couple observations...I'll bet you aren't busting checkrides for making "one small error". Perhaps a more honest of your performance is in order? In my experience, the error that ends a checkride is not the first/only error made on the ride...usually, there are a multitude of errors that have occurred during the process...the applicant merely siezes on the last error made and determines that "small error" is what caused the bust.

Second, a point of common sense in test taking, stop "getting a DE and FAA fed on things they didn't know". Showing someone up who is in the position of evaluating you just isn't wise.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Bons

Remember every examiners job out there is to teach the student. I've seen students do well on the oral and become almost pompous about it because the examiner can't stump them. Thats fine but make sure there is that line of authority. Some examiners are high on their horse and don't like that authority compromised. Be modest in the oral exam and make darn sure your flying is stone cold better than PTS. If your instructor is good, they will know when your ready. I knew a guy that failed 8 checkrides and now works a corporate flying job in beech 19's. You'll get hired somewhere..

StudentFlyer

Thanks everyone for the advice, I really appreciate it.

My flight portion of the checkride, which I passed no problem, was 3 hours long. Two DEs that I know of said that they have never even heard of a CFI initial ride being that long...and I was better than PTS standards and was doing everything good, even the FAA fed that gave it to me said that it was a good checkride. Maybe strung it out hoping he'd bust me on something, I don't know, but I am still talked about around the school.

I had that problem early on, and will once in a while I occasionally reach my limit...which is always under IFR, trying to copy an ATC clearance, intercept a course (worse, ILS), trying to "teach" what is going on, checklist, etc. As for mentally doing these sorties before going in the airplane, I do as best as I can, though like on my CFII, I was made aware of the approaches we'd be doing about 15 minutes prior to departure, so I did as best as I could at mentally flying them.

Thanks for the advice, maybe I can bring this up on my recheck.

My flying is good, other than a very occasional PTS deviation, which I detect and correct immediately (like heading 15 degrees off, or altitude will stray beyond 100ft). When these things do happen, its almost always due to some distraction, which I have successfully reduced.

As far as showing a DE and FAA fed up...I don't do that, or even try to (I just hope I don't come across that way, either). I just simply tell what I know, though I do have a slight controvery over this; do I say something that is correct but can dig a hole, or do I just say the common answer and see what happens? Example, I was asked on my CFII how many NOTAMs there are. I have always been told/taught from multiple CFIs that there are two, FDC notams, and distant notams (NOTAM L too, but those are gone now). Actually, I know from studying the AIM, that there are four. The DE that did my CFII is extremely smart, and gives amazing advice, afterall, he's been a CFI for 30+ years. When I told him 4 (again, trying to explain what I know), he looked that the AIM, and was like, "wow, you got me." But understood, I wouldn't want to talk back to someone with authority, definately not wise.

Thanks for the advice. I always learn something on checkrides, and definelty like that aspect of them. As far as I know, I fly within the PTS standards, even better at times, other than as I explained above, the rare instance where I deviate, but always correct it.

Blueskies21

I'm sorry that some of my comments may seem harsh, I'm torn on your situation. It sounds to me like you may be trying too hard to prove how good you are, that generally doesn't bode well. I also detect a feeling of arrogance or superiority, again that tends not to fly well on checkride. Confident but not arrogant is a thin line we walk.
I think you probably will be able to get a job even with the checkride failures when jobs become available again, however you need to make sure you frame those failures the right way. You didn't fail for one little thing, you failed for a combination of things most interviewers would know that. I recommend you try to characterize that as, "here's what I learned from that failure... in your GPS example... " but hey I'll never forget to use the OBS key again... and I learned how to reprogram the GPS faster than you'd believe"
Aviation as an industry is big on ownership, as long as you take ownership of your failures and don't try to blame it on someone else you'll do much better.

Planespotta

Completely agree. Again, don't take offense StudentFlyer, but I can relate to your position. When I started my PPL training, I thought pretty highly of my piloting abilities...I had been flying simulators since I was 4, landed on my first flight of training, held altitude and heading nearly "perfectly," as I'd like to have thought, etc. My CFI recognized what this probably meant for my ego and whipped me into shape stat. He made me respect aviation and always challenged me, forcing all the arrogance out of my system and replacing it with curiosity, respect, and a healthy regard for procedures and checklists.

It seems like this is what you need to do. You say that you are an outstanding pilot...but, you have failed 5 checkrides. What you are doing clearly isn't working. Messing up basic stuff, like not hitting the OBS button, shows a lack in fundamental airmanship. Open your mind up to improving yourself. Just because DEs and the FAA think you are a good pilot doesn't give you the right to massage your ego or think there's nothing you can do better - as one CFI told me, "you can't propel yourself forward by patting yourself on the back." You're screwing basic stuff up - stuff that simply slowing down and following procedures could fix. Aviation is really pretty simple, but people make it a lot harder and more complicated than it needs to be.

Stop sulking and trying to prove to other people that you are a good pilot, and start being that good pilot you wish you could be. You will notice the outstanding improvement in your abilities...I know that I did.

Let us know how it goes! Good luck, blue skies, and calm winds.

shdw

Extremely

DEs, as well as an FAA pilot, have told me I am an exceptional pilot. I know how to fly the airplane. I have been told that I am extremely intelligent, to the point of getting DE's and the FAA pilot on things they didn't know.

~shdw

Planespotta

...wow shdw