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Filing IFR to an airport not on the chart

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Filing IFR to an airport not on the chart

Old 05-17-2010, 07:36 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by WMU av8tor View Post
I'm flying from BEH. How would this look? ELX V116 AZO AZO344015

or just PMM and whatever that radial / DME is (looks like 091 radial to some intersection that begins with an O). That might keep you out of the AZO airspace (that looks busier than the PMM route).

Remember, when you file this way, the clearance guy/gal at will probably ask where you're "really" going. Just tell 'em you'll cancel at the clearance limit of AZO344015 and continue VFR.

Good luck.
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Old 05-17-2010, 07:49 PM
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61D doesn't show on the IFR the chart, however it is a charted airport. That's worth noting, because you can file a flight plan to it without getting into coordinates or radial/distance. Just because it's a "VFR Only" airport doesn't mean that you can't operate IFR to/from the field. The only time that you really need to file coordinates is when you want to go somewhere that isn't in the national airspace computer system. (Private fields or uncharted locations, such as a lake if you're flying a floatplane)

File from your origin via whatever routing (direct, airways, vectors, PFM... your choice) to an intersection, airport or navaid nearby, then direct to your destination. In this case, I would file:

Origin...whatever is necessary to get to V170...V170...OSEGO..61D. File an airport with an instrument approach as the alternate. (The reason that you file the alternate is for lost comm procedures if you are actual IMC when you arrive at 61D and can't land visually or cancel IFR)

Alternatively if the weather is crummy (say 1500' Ceilings), you can file a flight plan to a nearby airport that has an instrument approach (AZO or 35D). Assuming that the vis/ceiling is high enough for you to safely make it from those airports to 61D after shooting the approach, you can descend through the layer via the instrument approach and then get flight following to your destination, or simply cancel.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerJosh View Post
61D doesn't show on the IFR the chart, however it is a charted airport. That's worth noting, because you can file a flight plan to it without getting into coordinates or radial/distance. Just because it's a "VFR Only" airport doesn't mean that you can't operate IFR to/from the field. The only time that you really need to file coordinates is when you want to go somewhere that isn't in the national airspace computer system. (Private fields or uncharted locations, such as a lake if you're flying a floatplane)

Good catch that it is charted, however.... (isn't there always), not all the airports are either in the NAS computer, nor are the controllers familiar with all the airports. The radial / DME at least gives them a fighting chance of where to look. Your suggestion of V170...OSEGO..61D is sound.


File an airport with an instrument approach as the alternate. (The reason that you file the alternate is for lost comm procedures if you are actual IMC when you arrive at 61D and can't land visually or cancel IFR)

The reason you file an alternate is to comply with regulations, and to hopefully plan fuel wise for that possibility. The controller has NO IDEA what your alternate is. That data does not pass to the respective NAS computers.

If you want to communicate that info for a lost comm situation, put it in the remarks: Alternate ABC.

Unfortunately, since my days of ATC, they've regressed further, where there are not paper flight progress strips in many facilities, and the new ERAM computerized strips don't show remarks, I'm told. Good luck !!!
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WMU av8tor View Post
I'm assuming you have some affiliation w/ WMU due to the way you worded the last part of your message. As i'm sure you know WMU's SR20's are top of the line with all the avionics (R9 transition!) but I want to try and get into the a/c ferrying business before I try for a airline/corporate flight job. If I'm successful in that endeavor then I wont always get a glass cockpit gps equipped a/c, so I'm using this basic C172 to get that experience starting in VFR wx then moving into Marginal VFR then actual IFR WX. I just want more confidence in the system (I only did 2 flights at WMU on an IFR flightplan and both were in VFR) so that's why I file IFR now whenever I fly the C172.

I live near BEH (got my private licence there in a flying clubs C172 and am still a member) My whole freshman year I commuted from the BEH area to AZO or BTL as classes required. I could do the drive one way in a hour and at the end of the year actually saved $2500 since I didnt have to pay for a dorm! I still rent from my flying club at BEH because I cant find a decent plane in the area that rents at $80 and hour wet tach time
Aircraft ferrying is a good gig to get into. Good luck. As for the R9 transition.... let's just say you'll be ferrying kingairs by the time that charlie- fox is operational...
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:34 AM
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Thank you to everyone who has replied. As a new IFR pilot and fairly new private pilot, I'm not always the smartest when it comes to regulations and procedures! I appreciate the help

I believe your right tonywilliams, When flying w/ WMU I would put something in my remarks when filing via Duat.com and then ATC would ask me a question that they should have known if they had read my remarks. (I could never talk a FSS person to put my remarks in a flight plan because they said it was a waste of time!)

Yea detpilot, I emailed plane & pilot magazine editor Bill Cox and he said if I want in that business that I have my work cut out for me but I'm willing to give it a shot!

Supposedly students were supposed to start training in the R9 late April but i'm not sure if that ever happened cause i'm taking the summer off to work so I havnt been back to BTL since I passed my IFR checkride. Last I heard they were having issues with the radios loosing reception.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:54 AM
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Hey WMU, P.M. me if you wish, I'm from Bridgman originally. I love to see other pilots from home. Any career questions you may have I may be able to help.
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by lear553560ed View Post
Hey WMU, P.M. me if you wish, I'm from Bridgman originally. I love to see other pilots from home. Any career questions you may have I may be able to help.
How do I PM? I cant seem to find a link to do it anywhere and when I try to open your profile to look for it there it says I'm not authorized to open that page.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:05 AM
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How about a composite flight plan. If you're going to cancel anyway, file IFR to a fix where you're IFR flight plan terminates. Then you have to option of remaining IFR with the controller or canceling to continue to your destination. We used to do this in flight training quite often, especially when we didn't know where our destination was going to be or we strictly wanted to get students in the clouds. If there were IFR near a certain fix at a certain altitude, we'd just file direct to the fix, ask ATC for a block altitude, say 10 miles around the fix and we'd do BAI, etc in actual. When we were done, we'd ask for a lower altitude, cancel, and fly home.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by WMU av8tor View Post
How do I PM? I cant seem to find a link to do it anywhere and when I try to open your profile to look for it there it says I'm not authorized to open that page.
From the FAQs section of APC Forum:
Airline Pilot Central recently changed the forum policy for the Private Message (PM) feature. Registered users are now required to have 25 public posts before the site Private Message feature is available. The system looks at the number of posts (25), and the aggregate word count of all posts. If a user makes 25 very short posts, the system may raise the threshold for that user to a higher number than 25 posts. Best bet is just keep making the quality posts - just more of them! To fill the gap left by the PM threshold, I've added the ability to use Instant Messaging. The first thing you should know is that IM providers are NOT affiliated with this site. Provide you IM "handle" at your own risk. All the popular IM clients are represented as well as Skype! Add your IM details in the User Control Panel>Edit Profile. Enjoy!
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 250 or point 65 View Post
How about a composite flight plan. If you're going to cancel anyway, file IFR to a fix where you're IFR flight plan terminates. Then you have to option of remaining IFR with the controller or canceling to continue to your destination. We used to do this in flight training quite often, especially when we didn't know where our destination was going to be or we strictly wanted to get students in the clouds. If there were IFR near a certain fix at a certain altitude, we'd just file direct to the fix, ask ATC for a block altitude, say 10 miles around the fix and we'd do BAI, etc in actual. When we were done, we'd ask for a lower altitude, cancel, and fly home.
I thought a composite flightplan was for if you were going to fly VFR on top? Are you suggesting that I should fly IFR there then if i'm in the clouds ask for lower then just cancel and fly in VFR?

WMU never used any examples for a composite flightplan other than VFR on top during my training but if I interpreted what your saying correctly then it makes sense.
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