f16jetmech

So a few of the CFI's from my school and I are seriously considering buying a twin apache or something similar to build some time with. Find something for 50-60k, putting some time on in then reselling it when we're done.
In regards to time building i think its a great idea.... do some long cross countries IFR. What better experience can you get? It's gotta be better than dual multi given all local VFR.

Here's my question. Any negative thoughts on this? We are thinking about putting 300-400 hours on the motors, then reselling. How much in the hole do you go on a plane by adding 300 hours to the motors. (Assuming 500+ left on each motor before MOH).

Your thoughts appreciated

Cruz5350

Be careful with the Apache they can be a MX hog. Props have an important AD on them. So look to see if they are replaced with new non AD units. It's a great idea, but I mean really do you want to go that far into the hole? Think of insurance, tie down, fuel, oil etc. etc.

Cruz5350

O btw look at how long planes are sitting around waiting to sell. If you buy it I would put it up for sale the day after you take ownership. Then fly it and hope for someone to come around and buy it from you.

Ottopilot

I know some guys who did it with a Twin Commanche. They all have airline jobs last I heard. I didn't have the money. Just be careful about picking your partners.

Cubdriver

Be careful what you buy. I had a pal who bought an Apache and did the pre-buy inspection and still got royally burned. The last overhauls had been forged, the engines were worn out, and the landing gear failed causing him to do a beautiful belly landing destroying the other one. $65,000 to fly 4 times. That is a life savings for many people. The guy who sold it flew cross country to the sale so evidently he did not know the real condition. Old Apaches are targets for time builders, they go from one to the next without anyone really caring about them or having the money to care. I wouldn't buy one without the previous owner list being very short. Spend the money up front, that's your last chance to save a heartache. Old twins and are likely to fail at this point and at the very least they are going to need a lot of money put in. Look at a Seminole, Seneca, or some other 30 year old trainer instead.

f16jetmech

Great responses.. i appreciate everyones so far.

We're looking at a monthly cost (TOTAL) of very roughly 700 a month excluding any fuel or MX. We have some options for a mechanic and looking like a free tie down. So, assuming we buy with fresh annual and all MX is good, we have very little cost besides fuel of course. Divide 700 up by 4 guys and this becomes very affordable. I feel like this is a good deal and way cheaper than starting from 0 time and buying 50+ hours. Any idea how much money you lose on an aircraft (how much the value goes down) when you add 400-500 hours onto the engines then try to resell it? Any kind of rough % anyone can throw at me for that?

Cubdriver

Well I will say one more thing and then shut up: don't rush into this. Extreme caution is the only way to proceed on a 55-year old beat-up Apache. Think about it in a worst case scenario for one minute- if this thing goes belly up on you, the chances of your being able to revive it are problematic, and may even threaten your airline career aspirations if you are in the same boat as most of us. Pre-buy excitement is your mortal enemy with these airplanes. I would get not one but two mechanics to go over it during pre-buy, and have them do it separately so they do not influence one another. Pay them by the hour and be more than happy to keep them working for a bit. Ask them to tell you why you should buy this airplane, rather than why not to. If all they can come up with is minor stuff then consider the buy and hope they did not miss anything crucial. I see these airplanes junked all the time because of things that do not even seem serious.

Coto Pilot

I looked into doing this when I started flying and before I found the airplane I found a used aircraft broker with an Apache that let me fly it cheap. His aircraft weren't selling at the time and it brought him some immediate cash flow. I paid for fuel out of pocket. That being said, aircraft prices are near record lows and if you are able to hold onto the plane until the economy turns around you might do OK. Good luck.

Ewfflyer

Cessna 310, you can get some of those cheap too, and if you want to, fly it fast, if you want more time, fly it slow, still going to be relatively "cheaper" that way. Pulling 21-squared, you'll probably be burning less than 20gph easily on a C310 R-model, especially an older C310's with the IO-470's should net around 18gph. You can always go slower!

Cruz5350

Ya but there was some gear and wing spar issues I believe if I recall correctly. Something about trunions (sp?) also some sort of strap on the spar due to exhaust issues? I'm not sure, but just be careful. I think grabbing a 100hr block from Ari Ben is better than this.