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Old 01-28-2011, 10:08 AM   #1  
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: CL-65 / Gear Wrangler
Posts: 321
Default PIC SOE Restriction (61.159)

I have PIC Turbojet Type that I got when I had 1600 TT. I now have 2300 TT, 2000+ Turbine, ATP.

I want to get the limitation removed.
I couldn't find the excerpt from the current FARs so I copied the old FARs. 61.159 in the current FARs available online GPO Home Page HAS NONE OF THIS. Has all of this been removed?

I called the FSDO and the inspector called OKC. He said it could be removed with a new 8710. That's it.

My main question: Did they delete all this from the current FARs?



So here's what 61.159 said before:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAR 61.159 View Post

(g) Use of a flight simulator or flight training device for an airplane
rating. If a flight simulator or flight training device is used for
accomplishing all of the training and the required practical test for an
airplane transport pilot certificate with an airplane category, class, and
type rating, if applicable, the applicant, flight simulator, and flight
training device are subject to the following requirements:
(1) The flight simulator and flight training device must represent that
airplane type if the rating involves a type rating in an airplane, or is
representative of an airplane if the applicant is only seeking an airplane
class rating and does not require a type rating.
(2) The flight simulator and flight training device must be used in
accordance with an approved course at a training center certificated under
part 142 of this chapter.
(3) All training and testing (except preflight inspection) must be
accomplished by the applicant to receive an airplane class rating and type
rating, if applicable, without limitations and--
(i) The flight simulator must be qualified and approved as Level C or
Level D; and
(ii) The applicant must meet the aeronautical experience requirements of
Sec. 61.159 of this part and at least one of the following--
(A) Hold a type rating for a turbojet airplane of the same class of
airplane for which the type rating is sought, or have been designated by a
military service as a pilot in command of an airplane of the same class of
airplane for which the type rating is sought, if a turbojet type rating is
sought;
(B) Hold a type rating for a turbopropeller airplane ... ;
(C) Have at least 2,000 hours of flight time, of which 500 hours must be in
turbine-powered airplanes of the same class as the airplane for which the
type rating is sought;

(D) Have at least 500 hours of flight time in the same type of airplane as
the airplane for which the type rating is sought; or
(E) Have at least 1,000 hours of flight time in at least two different
airplanes requiring a type rating.
(4) Subject to the limitation of paragraph (g)(5) of this section, an
applicant who does not meet the requirements of paragraph (g)(3) of this
section may complete all training and testing (except for preflight
inspection) for an additional rating if--
(i) The flight simulator is qualified and approved as Level C or Level D;
and
(ii) The applicant meets the aeronautical experience requirements of Sec.
61.159 of this part and at least one of the following--
(A) Holds a type rating in a propeller-driven airplane if a type rating in
a turbojet airplane is sought, or holds a type rating in a turbojet airplane
if a type rating in a propeller-driven airplane is sought;
(B) Since the beginning of the 12th calendar month before the month in
which the applicant completes the practical test for the additional rating,
has logged--
(1) At least 100 hours of flight time in airplanes in the same class as the
airplane for which the type rating is sought and which requires a type
rating; and
(2) At least 25 hours of flight time in airplanes of the same type for
which the type rating is sought.
(5) An applicant meeting only the requirements of paragraph (g)(4)(ii)(A)
and (B) of this section will be issued an additional rating, or an airline
transport pilot certificate with an added rating, as applicable, with a
limitation. The limitation shall state: "This certificate is subject to
pilot-in-command limitations for the additional rating."
(6) An applicant who has been issued a certificate with the limitation
specified in paragraph (g)(5) of this section--
(i) May not act as pilot in command of the aircraft for which an additional
rating was obtained under the provisions of this section until the limitation
is removed from the certificate; and
(ii) May have the limitation removed by accomplishing 15 hours of
supervised operating experience as pilot in command under the supervision of a qualified and current pilot in command, in the seat normally occupied by the pilot in command, in an airplane of the same type for which the
limitation applies.
(7) An applicant who does not meet the requirements of paragraph
(g)(3)(ii)(A) through (E) or (g)(4)(ii)(A) and (B) of this section may be
issued an airline transport pilot certificate or an additional rating to that
pilot certificate after successful completion of one of the following
requirements--
(i) An approved course at a part 142 training center that includes all
training and testing for that certificate or rating, followed by training and
testing on the following tasks, which must be successfully completed on a
static airplane or in flight, as appropriate--
(A) Preflight inspection;
(B) Normal takeoff;
(C) Normal ILS approach;
(D) Missed approach; and
(E) Normal landing.
(ii) An approved course at a part 142 training center that complies with
paragraphs (g)(8) and (g)(9) of this section and includes all training and
testing for a certificate or rating.
(8) An applicant meeting only the requirements of paragraph (g)(7)(ii) of
this section will be issued an additional rating or an airline transport
pilot certificate with an additional rating, as applicable, with a
limitation. The limitation shall state: "This certificate is subject to
pilot-in-command limitations for the additional rating."

(9) An applicant issued a pilot certificate with the limitation specified
in paragraph (g)(8) of this section--
(i) May not act as pilot in command of the aircraft for which an additional
rating was obtained under the provisions of this section until the limitation
is removed from the certificate; and
(ii) May have the limitation removed by accomplishing 25 hours of
supervised operating experience as pilot in command under the supervision of a qualified and current pilot in command, in the seat normally occupied by the pilot in command, in an airplane of the same type for which the limitation applies.
Piedmonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 11:12 AM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 826
Default

The language you are quoting was not (not in the recent past anyway) part of 61.159. It was part of 61.63 until the Part 61 revision that became effective October 2009. If it ever was part of 61.159, I'm not aware of it.
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:50 AM   #3  
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
Default Remove 25 hr SOE

I have the same restriction on my first jet type rating. To my knowledge all you have to do is serve as PIC under the supervision of someone with the same type rating that doesn't have the restriction for 25 hrs. Then fill out a new 8710 (paper version) and take it to your FSDO with your logbook to show the 25 hrs. They should then issue you a new temporary certificate. Hope this helps!
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