Flight Instructor Wages
07-22-2011, 07:17 AM
#21
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
More CFI's
Every year there are more and more CFI's and fewer students. In the 1970's a CFI could earn a good living. At the time there were something like 30,000 instructors for 212,000 student pilots. Now there are over 90K instructors and somewhere around 74K students. To me this is evidence that fewer are able to make it out of being a CFI and those who do are not so willing to let their CFI expire for fear of loosing their job.
I do not think it is a viable way to build time anymore either. The fact that there are so many CFI's leads me to believe that there are a lot of unemployed instructors out there. There simply are not enough students to go around anymore. In order for there to be a healthy instructor market there should be 10 to 20 students per instructor for a CFI to be able to make it to 1000 hours of instruction given. Currently there are about 1.3 instructors per student. The numbers just do not work.
Consider putting the money that it would take to get the ratings into Avgas instead. Buy a 150 and fly the time off over of buying a CFI, IA and MEI. Imagine how hard things will be once the 1500 hour rule goes into effect. I imagine that new student numbers will fall off sharply. Flight instructors will be paying for the privilege to work.
Skyhigh
I do not think it is a viable way to build time anymore either. The fact that there are so many CFI's leads me to believe that there are a lot of unemployed instructors out there. There simply are not enough students to go around anymore. In order for there to be a healthy instructor market there should be 10 to 20 students per instructor for a CFI to be able to make it to 1000 hours of instruction given. Currently there are about 1.3 instructors per student. The numbers just do not work.
Consider putting the money that it would take to get the ratings into Avgas instead. Buy a 150 and fly the time off over of buying a CFI, IA and MEI. Imagine how hard things will be once the 1500 hour rule goes into effect. I imagine that new student numbers will fall off sharply. Flight instructors will be paying for the privilege to work.
Skyhigh
07-22-2011, 12:03 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: King Air 200 CA Hawker 800/900 FO
Posts: 810
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Every year there are more and more CFI's and fewer students. In the 1970's a CFI could earn a good living. At the time there were something like 30,000 instructors for 212,000 student pilots. Now there are over 90K instructors and somewhere around 74K students. To me this is evidence that fewer are able to make it out of being a CFI and those who do are not so willing to let their CFI expire for fear of loosing their job.
I do not think it is a viable way to build time anymore either. The fact that there are so many CFI's leads me to believe that there are a lot of unemployed instructors out there. There simply are not enough students to go around anymore. In order for there to be a healthy instructor market there should be 10 to 20 students per instructor for a CFI to be able to make it to 1000 hours of instruction given. Currently there are about 1.3 instructors per student. The numbers just do not work.
Consider putting the money that it would take to get the ratings into Avgas instead. Buy a 150 and fly the time off over of buying a CFI, IA and MEI. Imagine how hard things will be once the 1500 hour rule goes into effect. I imagine that new student numbers will fall off sharply. Flight instructors will be paying for the privilege to work.
Skyhigh
I do not think it is a viable way to build time anymore either. The fact that there are so many CFI's leads me to believe that there are a lot of unemployed instructors out there. There simply are not enough students to go around anymore. In order for there to be a healthy instructor market there should be 10 to 20 students per instructor for a CFI to be able to make it to 1000 hours of instruction given. Currently there are about 1.3 instructors per student. The numbers just do not work.
Consider putting the money that it would take to get the ratings into Avgas instead. Buy a 150 and fly the time off over of buying a CFI, IA and MEI. Imagine how hard things will be once the 1500 hour rule goes into effect. I imagine that new student numbers will fall off sharply. Flight instructors will be paying for the privilege to work.
Skyhigh
While this is still a WAG and I have no data to back this thought process up....yes there are more CFIs than students than there were in the 1970's but I would venture the active instructor to student ratio is not as inflated as your numbers may indicate. My thoughts being that in the last 20 years or so many more professional pilots have come from entirely civilian backgrounds with a fair amount of those obtaining a flight instructor certificate to break into professional flying. Versus in the 1970s many professional pilots at that time were being directly hired out of the military with no real need to obtain a CFI to pursue a civilian flying career.
One thing that you can't deny is that student pilot numbers are down which is disappointing but its primarily in the hobby pilot arena as the investment in obtaining a PVT pilot certificate has ballooned well outside many people's disposable income level.
07-22-2011, 03:46 PM
#23
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Instructing
Originally Posted by fjetter
While this is still a WAG and I have no data to back this thought process up....yes there are more CFIs than students than there were in the 1970's but I would venture the active instructor to student ratio is not as inflated as your numbers may indicate. My thoughts being that in the last 20 years or so many more professional pilots have come from entirely civilian backgrounds with a fair amount of those obtaining a flight instructor certificate to break into professional flying. Versus in the 1970s many professional pilots at that time were being directly hired out of the military with no real need to obtain a CFI to pursue a civilian flying career.
One thing that you can't deny is that student pilot numbers are down which is disappointing but its primarily in the hobby pilot arena as the investment in obtaining a PVT pilot certificate has ballooned well outside many people's disposable income level.
One thing that you can't deny is that student pilot numbers are down which is disappointing but its primarily in the hobby pilot arena as the investment in obtaining a PVT pilot certificate has ballooned well outside many people's disposable income level.
Skyhigh
07-22-2011, 07:30 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: CFI/II/MEI
Posts: 481
Originally Posted by fjetter
One thing that you can't deny is that student pilot numbers are down which is disappointing but its primarily in the hobby pilot arena as the investment in obtaining a PVT pilot certificate has ballooned well outside many people's disposable income level.
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
In the past a lot of an instructors work was involved in pilot maintenance and in training hobby pilots. However the number of private pilots is plunging as well. That means fewer BFR's and endorsements. The majority of new pilots move on into professional aviation. No ongoing rentals, checkouts and the like. The result is much less work for CFI's.
When the 1500 hour/ATP rule hits it will be very hard to build time, at least as hard has it has been during the recession and possibly worse. Unless the prices of fuel, insurance, aircraft rental, etc magically drop dramatically.
07-22-2011, 10:01 PM
#25
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Agreed
Originally Posted by Bellanca
I think that is the main problem. A much higher ratio of students today are career students versus hobby-pilot students. More of today's student's are going on to get their commercial/CFI and joining the ranks of pilots looking for employment.
When the 1500 hour/ATP rule hits it will be very hard to build time, at least as hard has it has been during the recession and possibly worse. Unless the prices of fuel, insurance, aircraft rental, etc magically drop dramatically.
When the 1500 hour/ATP rule hits it will be very hard to build time, at least as hard has it has been during the recession and possibly worse. Unless the prices of fuel, insurance, aircraft rental, etc magically drop dramatically.
Skyhigh
07-23-2011, 08:25 AM
#26
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
I agree. I do not think it is a good idea to get a CFI rating anymore. Buy a plane and spend the money on avgas instead.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh
07-23-2011, 01:16 PM
#27
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
The CFI
Originally Posted by Ewfflyer
Even with that said, you don't feel that the value of the CFI rating, and the challenges of teaching don't warrent the effort?
Each I suppose has their merits however there are a lot of unused CFI rating out there. In regards to career building the money could be better spent on flight time over wasted ratings. Nice to have but for most resources are limited.
I have plenty of friends who skipped the CFI and are able to advance in their careers. In my experience most bush pilot types started out in their own planes.
Skyhigh
07-24-2011, 05:54 PM
#28
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
I think the CFI helps to make you a better teacher. Owning, maintaining and operating a plane makes you a better pilot. I was a full time instructor for a long time. I sat in the right seat while others flew. Flying my own plane on trips all over the US and Alaska is what made me a bush pilot.
Each I suppose has their merits however there are a lot of unused CFI rating out there. In regards to career building the money could be better spent on flight time over wasted ratings. Nice to have but for most resources are limited.
I have plenty of friends who skipped the CFI and are able to advance in their careers. In my experience most bush pilot types started out in their own planes.
Skyhigh
Each I suppose has their merits however there are a lot of unused CFI rating out there. In regards to career building the money could be better spent on flight time over wasted ratings. Nice to have but for most resources are limited.
I have plenty of friends who skipped the CFI and are able to advance in their careers. In my experience most bush pilot types started out in their own planes.
Skyhigh
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