BeardedFlyer

Hello all,

I'm a low timer, 450 TT with multi, comm, inst, and will have the CFI within the next month or so. My career goal is to get on with a major (Alaska would be nice) which means I need to get on with a regional as soon as possible; Skywest or Horizon preferably and unlike some of the other regionals right now their mins are still up around 1000TT so I need to build but I'm wondering if not all piston single engine hours are equal in the eyes of a 121. I know there are a lot of adamant supporters of flight instructing out there but would 500hrs of instructing in 152's really look better than say... 500hrs flying a piper cherokee for a 135 VFR operation? What about instructing vs. banner towing, or land surveying, or any of those other non X-C VFR type jobs?

I would really appreciate any input on this from those out there who are wiser than me. Thanks!

Duckdude

I may be 100% wrong as I haven't flown 135, but I think the instructing would be safer. In a well maintained 152 and 172, for instance, instructing is very safe. I could picture a VFR charter operation really pushing the limits on weather, but I guess it all depends on their mission and where in the country you would be flying.

Doesn't do any good to build hours fast if it gets you violated or killed.

Good Luck with your choice.

PilotJ3

You can do all of those jobs and don't get violated. I did banner towing, 135 VFR and Flight instructing at the same time for 2 years.

I was fun and it was rewarding. Don't look to get hired in a regional too soon. Enjoy your time, is not bad to have Shiny Jet Syndrome, but you should build your PIC time and your experience before going to a regional.

I got hired in eagle with 1,400 and training was a bit difficult cause I never flew something bigger than a aztec. I've heard low timers are getting busted fast and you don't want to get fired of a 121. Is not good for your career.

And remember....in 135 VFR or any other operation you are the PIC, so if the weather is not good just tell your boss you're not going PERIOD. Don't let the fear of getting fired push you into some bad weather. You're the PIC and you're the one flying the plane.

So, in my recommendation get at least 1,000hrs before getting hired, even if places like eagle, that are hiring with 500tt/50me/250pic. Or as I did, get all your ATP time requirement and then move on.

Get your CFI, and have fun flying the little planes, cause as soon as you get into a airline you'll be standardize and won't be able to do fun stuff cause you have passengers in the back.

smugglersblues

Be careful of those darn VFR 135 operations. Duckdude has it right--they're fraught with peril, specifically the ones on the fringe of oversight by way of distance and geography. Finish your CFI---instruct for awhile.

jcrews

specifically the ones on the fringe of oversight by way of distance and geography.

Like puerto rico?

rickair7777

I avoided 135 because I just wasn't entirely comfortable with risk the factors, but each to his own. But I'd probably recommend either avoiding it or being very selective about who you work for if you have a family. The potential benefits of flying 135 to advance your career are not worth the extra risk (depending on the company). Advancing your career by one year vs. a lifetime of no daddy?

BeardedFlyer

"I could picture a VFR charter operation really pushing the limits on weather, but I guess it all depends on their mission and where in the country you would be flying."

"they're fraught with peril, specifically the ones on the fringe of oversight by way of distance and geography."

Hah, well I was thinking Saipan so this advice may be right on but the job I'm looking into only flies 10 mile hops between Tinian and Saipan so I can't imagine getting into any real perilous weather situations on .3 long legs.

"I got hired in eagle with 1,400 and training was a bit difficult cause I never flew something bigger than a aztec. I've heard low timers are getting busted fast and you don't want to get fired of a 121. Is not good for your career."

That's great advice J3. I never gave any thought to how a wash out during initial training at a 121 might effect the rest of my career. It's easy to think once you make it passed the interview and get hired the hard part is over but I am sure going from a little twin Comanche (or insert your favorite light twin rental here) to a CRJ is quite a humbling transition for a bare minimum low timer.

Although I may build more crystallized knowledge as an instructor I have to be honest, my priority right now is building time as fast as possible; I don't want to miss out on this supposed hiring BOOM and let 1000 seniority numbers slip by because I made the wrong move back in 2011. I should be able to accumulate about 1500hrs in 18 months with this 135 gig as opposed to 500-800 in the same amount of time as an instructor.

As far as safety goes, this operation I'm looking at seems okay. My concern is that a 121 might look at my log book and say something like, "hmm, what do we have here...1500hrs flying 10 mile VFR legs to the same two airports? Get out of here!" But, although you may be filling in the boxes under "dual" I don't see how flying a 152 around the pattern (because it looks like 70% or more of instruction time is spent only in the pattern, especially with the abysmal completion rates and instructors constantly having to start all over with 0 timers) is really that much better. At least the 135 VFR job is high perf. time, and it all will count toward my 135 IFR mins, so that option will be wide open when I get back. A year at Ameriflight to get my ATP reqs and I should be ready for hire (and initial CRJ training ) at my regional of choice 3 years from today! This tighty plan probably seems a bit naive so lets just call it my 3 year rough draft.

Crap, this reply is pretty long; much appreciation to those of you who read through all my woes and write back.

BeardedFlyer

rickair777, I am honored to have a "Prime Minister" such as yourself grace my thread with your presence! I'll tell you what, I would love to avoid all 135 IFR but the problem for me and other guys in my position is this new 2013 ATP rule. (Ridiculous. One captain forgets how to recover from a stall and the entire process for new hires is transformed. The guy was hired with low time but at the time of the crash he had an ATP+ a few thousand hrs so what do flying hrs have to do with it?!) To get on as a FO with any 121 I need those ATP reqs and there aren't many relatively speedy ways to build toward that other than getting $h*ty vectors in a duct taped up Piper Chieftain during the middle of the night in IMC and icing 5 nights a week for 12 months. Yes there might be some safer 135 charter opportunities out there as an FO but they want much higher mins. AMflight is pretty much knocking on pilot's doors.

These are my thoughts but the whole reason for posting on here is to figure out if I should abandon them adopt new ones! Let me know what you think.

USMCFLYR

This flying sounds like a great time - and experience - for awhile. I agree that the flying a .3, multiple times a day, between the same two airports will get boring fast, but it is different and the locales ought to give rise to some conversation in any interviews in the future.

I am curious though what other flying you might be doing on the side. I don't know how many times a day you are going to be flying this back-n-forth route, but my quick math says that if you fly 10 times a day for the 0.3 total you get 3.0 hours of flying time per day. Do that 5 days a week (no cnxs and worse yet no vacation) for 78 weeks (the 18 months you mention), then you will have 1,172 TT; still short 328 hours of the 1,500 that you thought you might have above in that time of flying. Will you have extra opportunity to fly. What about the x/c requirement for the ATP, or that part of the reasoning for going to AmFlt for the requirements?

You can read numerous threads on APC about the pros/cons of instructing and the benefits of the same 1.0 a thousand different times (though your situation fits in that category too which is unusual for P135). Instructing is as much about waching someone and working with someone and instructing someone in not just hands on flying but the whole host of items that is required to make a complete pilot.

This is a benefit - no doubt.

USMCFLYR

smugglersblues

.3 ? wait until you have to go to Rota, at night, in a old Cherokee navigating with your trusty ADF.
*look at google earth to gain a full appreciation.