Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Flight Schools and Training
IMPORTANT -Instrument ground teacher >

IMPORTANT -Instrument ground teacher

Notices
Flight Schools and Training Ratings, building hours, airmanship, CFI topics

IMPORTANT -Instrument ground teacher

Old 10-28-2012, 10:06 AM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Default IMPORTANT -Instrument ground teacher

Alright. So i am currently workign on my instrument rating at utah state university.
I have a NEW teacher, teaching instrument.

It is his FIRST year teaching.

to me, that is a BIG read flag.

DO you think it is a good idea putting a first year teacher in teaching instrument ground? Especially in one of the most vital ratings of our careers in flying.
This guy doesn't really teach, he is only playing the jeppesen videos and we read the chapter and do the questions at the end of the book.

I feel like i am wasting money on a terrible college experience, with a crummy ground teacher.

It does seem like he knows what he is talking about, he just can't teach..and he sounds like he isn't an authoritative figure, i feel like i can take of advantage of him easily.
I wouldn't trust this guy with my life in IFR conditions.
Hawker445 is offline  
Old 10-28-2012, 10:27 AM
  #2  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,097
Default

Taking an instrument ground class is not even a requirement for the rating...you can get all the ground you need from reading and from your flight instructor.

Hopefully your CFII inspires your confidence.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 10-28-2012, 10:29 AM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Taking an instrument ground class is not even a requirement for the rating...you can get all the ground you need from reading and from your flight instructor.

Hopefully your CFII inspires your confidence.
I know i can, i know i need to do the studying on my own, but since it is a part 141 flight school i am required by the FAA to take instrument ground through the university
Hawker445 is offline  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:52 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: PNF
Posts: 622
Default

1st year teaching at the collegiate level? Or 1st year AGI/IGI? There is a BIG difference. Some teachers you just need to let them gain their confidence teaching. One of my favorite teachers was terrible in the beginning, but I learned a lot from him later down the road at commercial multi.
yimke is offline  
Old 10-28-2012, 04:15 PM
  #5  
Moderator
 
Cubdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Default

Don't be a jerk, but do challenge him on what he says. He will tell you what he knows and you will find out what he doesn't know at the same time. I would not dismiss him out of hand or feel cheated though, because MOST instrument ground instructors are newbies. He is probably at least competent, and IFR ground instruction is mostly facts and rules, hard to mess that stuff up. Flight training towards an instrument rating is another beast. An experienced IFR flight instructor is worth his or her weight in safe flight hours and a lot of them are time builders. My IFR training was fairly weak, and it came to haunt me later on. I got my CFII from a very advanced fellow, and only then I realized how weak the first round had been. It was a minor marvel I passed my initial instrument checkride without a retake, given how weak my instruction was.
Cubdriver is offline  
Old 10-28-2012, 05:19 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: CJ4 manager/pilot
Posts: 948
Default

Originally Posted by Hawker445 View Post
I wouldn't trust this guy with my life in IFR conditions.
Really? Because he's currently a much better instrument pilot than you are.

I'm just making sure I have this straight. You, a private pilot with what, 100 hours of total time, is judging a CFII teaching a collegiate level course because it's his first year teaching?

You do realize that every college professor has, at some point, been in his or her first year of teaching? You think that he just jumped in and is making it up as he goes along?

I'm going to venture a wild guess here that an aviation department didn't pick a lackluster, half-ass CFII to teach their instrument ground class. They picked someone they were confident would get the job done.

They should probably let him go and throw you in there. You'd no doubt do a much better job than him.
DirectTo is offline  
Old 10-28-2012, 05:35 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Default

Originally Posted by DirectTo View Post

They should probably let him go and throw you in there. You'd no doubt do a much better job than him.

Well no duh i wouldn't do a better job. Though i do know enough about IFR because i have flown with my father in IFR conditions various times to know what to look out for. he DOES know what he is talkng about, but he just can't teach it very well. There have been occasions where i have caught him with some things that didn't seem right when he was trying to explain enroute and approach procedures .

Originally Posted by DirectTo View Post
I'm just making sure I have this straight. You, a private pilot with what, 100 hours of total time, is judging a CFII teaching a collegiate level course because it's his first year teaching?
And first He is not a CFI, or multiengine rated. Only a private, commercial and instrument rating. Never went to the airlines. He said he has about 90 hours of actual IFR.

For my hours I have 231 logged. around 160 PIC with out instruction

Last edited by Hawker445; 10-28-2012 at 05:55 PM.
Hawker445 is offline  
Old 10-28-2012, 05:40 PM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,977
Default

I have little patience for this type of thing. You are paying money for this service, it should be well developed, beneficial, the teacher should be an "expert", and he should have the support of those behind him. I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the teacher if it's his first time, but I'd put plenty of blame on those above him. All too often, they just tell someone "here, teach this, here's the jeppeson syllabus, just show these and go over these and it will be good. No one gave any direction as to lesson development, resources, approval of the training plan, and so forth. It's sloppy and it usually shows. When you're new to something, you need help, you need someone to help guide you, you need feedback from those above, you need support. It's possible they are treating him like a 2-bit contract person, but there is a lot that goes into development and structure that's not covered by "teaching hours". It's hard to motivate someone to work for 3 weeks unpaid just to develop a good course (reviewing supporting materials, organizing, etc).

These are the issues I'd bring up with the Dean. Does this person have adequate resources and support by the university? Who checks over the material? How did they allow him to practice first? How are they measuring the professor's ability? Is he an experienced educator, and if not, how are they helping him?

I read an article a few weeks back that said a huge problem in business with new personnel is not enough direction as to what to do and how to do it. To some extent, there may need to be some micromanaging at some level, to a large extent, each superior must hold their subordinates accountable and ensure they have what they need. That's not micromanaging, that's just accountability.
JamesNoBrakes is offline  
Old 10-28-2012, 05:53 PM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Default

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
I have little patience for this type of thing. You are paying money for this service, it should be well developed, beneficial, the teacher should be an "expert", and he should have the support of those behind him. I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the teacher if it's his first time, but I'd put plenty of blame on those above him. All too often, they just tell someone "here, teach this, here's the jeppeson syllabus, just show these and go over these and it will be good. No one gave any direction as to lesson development, resources, approval of the training plan, and so forth. It's sloppy and it usually shows. When you're new to something, you need help, you need someone to help guide you, you need feedback from those above, you need support. It's possible they are treating him like a 2-bit contract person, but there is a lot that goes into development and structure that's not covered by "teaching hours". It's hard to motivate someone to work for 3 weeks unpaid just to develop a good course (reviewing supporting materials, organizing, etc).

These are the issues I'd bring up with the Dean. Does this person have adequate resources and support by the university? Who checks over the material? How did they allow him to practice first? How are they measuring the professor's ability? Is he an experienced educator, and if not, how are they helping him?

I read an article a few weeks back that said a huge problem in business with new personnel is not enough direction as to what to do and how to do it. To some extent, there may need to be some micromanaging at some level, to a large extent, each superior must hold their subordinates accountable and ensure they have what they need. That's not micromanaging, that's just accountability.

Flat out it is his first time teaching. I'm not sure how they found this guy, but i was expecting someone with 5+ years of being a CFi and hundreds of actual IFR hours logged.

From what i understand the guy before wasn't great either. He just handed students the material and said do this or that and youre good. But it wa on the students to study the material.

I am studying the material (barely passing) and this guy just can't teach
Hawker445 is offline  
Old 10-29-2012, 07:25 AM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Another RJ FO
Posts: 1,272
Default

Originally Posted by DirectTo View Post
Really? Because he's currently a much better instrument pilot than you are.

I'm just making sure I have this straight. You, a private pilot with what, 100 hours of total time, is judging a CFII teaching a collegiate level course because it's his first year teaching?

You do realize that every college professor has, at some point, been in his or her first year of teaching? You think that he just jumped in and is making it up as he goes along?

I'm going to venture a wild guess here that an aviation department didn't pick a lackluster, half-ass CFII to teach their instrument ground class. They picked someone they were confident would get the job done.

They should probably let him go and throw you in there. You'd no doubt do a much better job than him.
I second all of that. I got my CFI in a college program and got my first teaching experience by teaching for the university. I had students and taught some ground school at the university. Yes I made mistakes and I was still learning, but I made sure my students passed and I made sure that they were willing to talk to me if they had problems. They knew that I was new.

Go talk to the guy. If he's really a new CFII then he's probably open to the input from students. I would much rather have a student come up and tell me why they disliked my teaching style rather then finding them complain about it on an Internet forum.
rcfd13 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Gajre539
The Boneyard
0
07-19-2010 01:45 PM
MorRiskAV8
Flight Schools and Training
5
06-10-2010 04:24 AM
toeman9
Flight Schools and Training
96
01-26-2007 09:00 PM
TravisUK
Flight Schools and Training
8
01-19-2007 07:17 PM
iahflyr
Flight Schools and Training
10
10-18-2006 07:56 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices