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Old 07-28-2012, 08:02 AM   #11  
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Default Opportunity cost

The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.

It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.

Buy the house instead.

Skyhigh
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:36 AM   #12  
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.

It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.

Buy the house instead.

Skyhigh
No Sky, their first clue is reviewing all of your one-sided 6,575 post's regarding a profession that has been successful for a LOT of people as well as a disappointment. Lighten up dude, you made your point 6,570 post's ago. Crack a cold one and loosen up the belt.
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:54 PM   #13  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.

It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.

Buy the house instead.

Skyhigh
No, new pilots need to stop whoring themselves for next to nothing, and find a job that will support them the way they want to live. I'm right at 18 months out of that big pilot factory in Daytona Beach, nearly debt free, and enjoying life, while I see lots of people I went to school with just struggling to survive. People seem to forget there is more to flying than the 121/135 world and instructing. Sure, there aren't tons of jobs out there, but if you really want something, go find it. Complaining on the internet doesn't fix anything.
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:30 PM   #14  
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.

It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.

Buy the house instead.

Skyhigh
Most of my friends that have graduated college in the past 2 to 3 years don't have real jobs and sure as hell won't be buying houses in the next 5 years.

This economy has changed the game for a lot of folks.

And I have no real want to own a house... I would own property as an investment, but never a house of my own. I'm a bit of a vagabond by nature. Have been for years. So maybe thats another reason I picked this profession.
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Old 07-29-2012, 04:05 AM   #15  
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. Not only do pilots have to front the cash for four years of college and flight training but they also have to consider the wasted years after getting licensed and education trying to build experience.

It all goes onto the great hole in the sky and needs to be counted. Your first clue that something is wrong is when your friends and peers outside of aviation start buying houses, getting married, and building lives while you are still living like an impoverished college kid.

Buy the house instead.

Skyhigh
I was the first in my group of friends to get married, buy a house, and start a family. And the house is the only debt in my name. My friends that went to law school had a hard time finding jobs after they graduated and ended up doing unpaid internships to hopefully get a paid position later on. The valedictorian of my class couldn't find a job with a masters degree and ended up working at Kohls.
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Old 07-29-2012, 05:22 AM   #16  
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There's nothing wrong with aviation and there are plenty of opportunities.

Everything is broken and wrong right now with being an airline pilot. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know.


Too many people think aviation=airline pilot. I do wish some of the posters would stop using the term "aviation career" to only describe being an airline pilot.

I start a new job in aviation very soon. I couldn't be happier. About 3x the pay of a regional airline pilot. I'll be able to afford flying on the side (outside of a bit of flying I get on the job). Not constantly going through security and taking off my shoes. I won't be worrying about furlough. I won't be worried about getting "stuck" as an FO, etc...

So many people set out with this "single goal" before college, and sometimes before high school, they are going to be an "airline pilot". After adjusting my goal from "astronaut" to "airline pilot", I figured that this was achievable, but being that I set my sights on it early, I tried to make all of my efforts centered towards it. With so many people doing everything they can to reach this goal, the airlines and industry can sit back and draw off of the constant/steady supply whenever necessary. No shortage, no reason to pay them a lot of money as long as their sights are set on that 777. If you REALLY know what you are doing, you can get certs and ratings on the side while you have a fairly decent job, save up a chunk of money for some ATP stuff, get a type rating, do a little corporate flying, then wait and "pounce" on the major airline job with your turbine time. There are a few ways to do something similar, but timing and luck are everything as indicated all over this site. The funny part is that with an "alternate route" you can often cut out the regional airline thing and the excessive misery, but once you are "locked in", it's hard to get out (example of circumventing: was offered a CAE position, starting off teaching ground, moving to sim, getting type, acting as FO or CA when necessary, after a year would have option of going to any partner (major) airline or big pay increase to stay at CAE). Problem is, no one is going to tell you about these things and only so many people can come in "from the sides", so once that's filled up you don't really have a choice, but no one is usually out there letting people know about these alternate routes or how to have a decent job you enjoy while doing the flying thing "semi-seriously" until a good opportunity comes along.

If we could change this one perception that aviation=being an airline pilot, I think we could make some amazing progress towards better quality of life and respect for the position. These "aviation schools" can be beneficial for these types of jobs outside of "airline pilot", but from the students, to the professors, to the instructors, to the recruiters, all that is preached is "airline pilot" and how "some day" things are going to get "really good again". So many airline pilots are out there now hoping and waiting for this to happen...


"tell me about the rabbits again george!"

Last edited by JamesNoBrakes; 07-29-2012 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 07-29-2012, 01:58 PM   #17  
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I mean... I'm not making it up. So you can believe what you want. Just sharing my experiences.

I've been in contact with about 20 different companies. From sky-diving, to aerial survey, and everything in between.
Maybe at this beginning level of aviation jobs it may be the case. But at an airline, fractional, or corporate gig interview, it will NOT be brought up. If so you should laugh and walk away. EXPERIENCE is what everyone is looking for.
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Old 07-29-2012, 02:00 PM   #18  
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141 vs 61 that is...
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:39 AM   #19  
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Maybe at this beginning level of aviation jobs it may be the case. But at an airline, fractional, or corporate gig interview, it will NOT be brought up. If so you should laugh and walk away. EXPERIENCE is what everyone is looking for.
I figured... it just seems like a way for companies that employ low-time pilots to perhaps help weed through some of the applicants. With things the way they are today, I'm sure they have a stack of resumes at least a few dozen thick to sift through.

I'm willing to relocate, still can't find anything. Hopefully I can shake up something in a couple of weeks when I finish my CFI and the survey companies start hiring for the season.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:07 AM   #20  
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You guys think it's bad? You should come to Europe. Some guys are willing to spend 120,000 GBP ($190,000) for pilot training and it doesn't even include a University degree. Then, they expect to get a job flying a Boeing 737 or Airbus A320 straight out of school (which some do), but a significant percentage don't find anything. I hear guys say that they don't want to fly a turboprop, have no interest in instructing, they would "settle" to fly a cargo plane as long as it had two jets...

I'm serious. A friend of mine was unsuccessful at two interviews (250 hours total time, one interview was for a 737 operator, the other flying single engine turboprops in the bush). His plan is to go back to the family business and save up for a type rating, and possibly pay for time on type. Lots of guys go back to their old jobs and then keep sending out résumés hoping that someone will bite. Some days, I wonder what I am doing here as far as trying to progress a flying career.
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