Definition of Dutch Roll
#11
Here is a better explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll
Last edited by hypoxia; 04-06-2014 at 06:37 AM.
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Delta FO
Posts: 65
It sounds like what you were doing is a slip. If you are banked and you are still going straight or not turning as rapidly as you should (uncoordinated...not enough rudder), then it is a slip. If you are turning more rapidly than what is appropriate for the bank (still uncoordinated...i.e. too much inside rudder), then you are in a skid.
#13
What you were doing was not technically a dutch roll. It was a simple rudder coordination exercise that most (good) CFIs use to teach proper rudder input when banking (rolling) an airplane.
The way I teach this maneuver (in a Skyhawk) is to have the student place their feet on the floor, and use the ailerons to roll the plane back and forth, left to right. Without using the rudder, you can clearly see the nose of the airplane move in the opposite direction of the roll. This is adverse yaw caused by induced drag (slipping turn). I have the student do this several times to reinforce watching the nose slide from side to side opposite the direction of the aileron input and why this is undesirable.
Next, I have the student execute the exact same aileron rolling, but now emphasize using the rudder to keep the nose stationary in relation to a point on the horizon while rolling back and forth. Now we are using the rudder to cancel out the adverse yaw (slip), and can see the ball stays centered in the inclinometer, and we are making a coordinated turn.
Roll, and Step, Roll, and Step. This is what it sounds like you were doing. It is commonly (and incorrectly) referred to as a dutch roll maneuver, when it is simply a rudder coordination exercise.
The way I teach this maneuver (in a Skyhawk) is to have the student place their feet on the floor, and use the ailerons to roll the plane back and forth, left to right. Without using the rudder, you can clearly see the nose of the airplane move in the opposite direction of the roll. This is adverse yaw caused by induced drag (slipping turn). I have the student do this several times to reinforce watching the nose slide from side to side opposite the direction of the aileron input and why this is undesirable.
Next, I have the student execute the exact same aileron rolling, but now emphasize using the rudder to keep the nose stationary in relation to a point on the horizon while rolling back and forth. Now we are using the rudder to cancel out the adverse yaw (slip), and can see the ball stays centered in the inclinometer, and we are making a coordinated turn.
Roll, and Step, Roll, and Step. This is what it sounds like you were doing. It is commonly (and incorrectly) referred to as a dutch roll maneuver, when it is simply a rudder coordination exercise.
#14
Next, I have the student execute the exact same aileron rolling, but now emphasize using the rudder to keep the nose stationary in relation to a point on the horizon while rolling back and forth. Now we are using the rudder to cancel out the adverse yaw (slip), and can see the ball stays centered in the inclinometer, and we are making a coordinated turn.
Think about it, as you start to roll into a turn, the airplane SHOULD be turning, IF it's coordinated (why wouldn't it turn?). It should be turning at the rate for 10 degrees of bank (while coordinated) when you go through 10 degrees of bank. It should be turning at the rate for 15 degrees of bank when you go through 15 degrees of bank. Although the above described "exercise" has been practiced since Orville and Wilbur took to the skies, it's not "coordinated" to roll into a turn and keep the nose stationary on a point (in terms of heading).
Next time you do this exercise, look very closely at the ball.
#15
Actually, no, that's not coordinated. You are basically saying (teaching that method) that aircraft start to turn (change heading) AFTER you reach a desired bank angle. Care to justify that?
Think about it, as you start to roll into a turn, the airplane SHOULD be turning, IF it's coordinated (why wouldn't it turn?). It should be turning at the rate for 10 degrees of bank (while coordinated) when you go through 10 degrees of bank. It should be turning at the rate for 15 degrees of bank when you go through 15 degrees of bank. Although the above described "exercise" has been practiced since Orville and Wilbur took to the skies, it's not "coordinated" to roll into a turn and keep the nose stationary on a point (in terms of heading).
Next time you do this exercise, look very closely at the ball.
Think about it, as you start to roll into a turn, the airplane SHOULD be turning, IF it's coordinated (why wouldn't it turn?). It should be turning at the rate for 10 degrees of bank (while coordinated) when you go through 10 degrees of bank. It should be turning at the rate for 15 degrees of bank when you go through 15 degrees of bank. Although the above described "exercise" has been practiced since Orville and Wilbur took to the skies, it's not "coordinated" to roll into a turn and keep the nose stationary on a point (in terms of heading).
Next time you do this exercise, look very closely at the ball.
Yes, we all know that while in a coordinated banked turn, that you will have a heading change in the direction of the bank (isn't that a given?).
I was simply trying to explain the purpose of the maneuver described by the OP. That is to 1) Demonstrate adverse yaw, and what causes it. 2) How to properly use the rudder to cancel the adverse yaw (preventing the nose from yawing opposite the aileron input). It's a maneuver for pre-solo private pilots, don't over complicate it....
#16
No, not really. The amount of hair-splitting and one-upmanship on this form is astounding.
Yes, we all know that while in a coordinated banked turn, that you will have a heading change in the direction of the bank (isn't that a given?).
I was simply trying to explain the purpose of the maneuver described by the OP. That is to 1) Demonstrate adverse yaw, and what causes it. 2) How to properly use the rudder to cancel the adverse yaw (preventing the nose from yawing opposite the aileron input). It's a maneuver for pre-solo private pilots, don't over complicate it....
Yes, we all know that while in a coordinated banked turn, that you will have a heading change in the direction of the bank (isn't that a given?).
I was simply trying to explain the purpose of the maneuver described by the OP. That is to 1) Demonstrate adverse yaw, and what causes it. 2) How to properly use the rudder to cancel the adverse yaw (preventing the nose from yawing opposite the aileron input). It's a maneuver for pre-solo private pilots, don't over complicate it....
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