Ders

Hey everyone. I know there are some redundant threads out there but I didn't see anything posted specifically regarding ATP Flight School besides the one asking for a phone #. My apologies if it's out there.

For a brief background on me - I would be considered a "career changer" and I have already read the Truth About the Profession link. I am about to turn 31 but have spent my entire career working in corporate banking (transactional finance, loan underwriting, that sort of thing). I just flat out don't like the corporate world and have always had a passion for aviation. I obtained my Private Pilot in Sep'13. I know it's a big change in lifestyle and maybe most importantly income, but I do have an undergrad business degree and MBA as a fall back option, which the Truth About the Profession link mentioned as critical. I should also be able to self finance my training.

So given this, is ATP a good option for someone in my position? Is it worth the $50k? Is that a fair price for the training you receive? I'm not sure what other option I would have. Local flight school? This could be cheaper but takes longer. Seems like ATP can get you to CFI pretty quickly. Maybe there are other nationals worth looking into?

Anyway, just hoping to get some thoughts. I'm not fully convinced of taking the plunge just yet but have been giving it a really hard look. Any insight would be helpful.

BeechedJet

I never went to ATP but I know people that have and they turned out fine. With that being said don't so much plan on how to get your certificates but plan what you will do afterwords to get your hours in. Plan on being broke for a while.

gdpballin

Don't buy into their financing, it's a waste of time and money and you will barely be able to make payments with the salary you get after you are done the program.

It's a good program if you study and have a private pilots license already. You'll finish around the time they say you will as long as the weather and examiner availability corporate.

They offer you a job at the end, not a bad gig if you don't mind working 7 days a week.

rev4life03

A buddy of mine went there, he said the training was good but he paid through the nose to get it.

As far as the CFI job goes afterwards, it usually takes a few months to get a call (that's if they even want you) then you answer phones until a CFI spot opens at one of their locations, then you begin to instruct.

If you plan on financing it, think twice, income for a CFI and regional pilot is very low and you will struggle to make payments. The total cost of the program will be more than advertised after factoring in living expenses, Examiner fees (figure $500 per checkride) and other materials like the iPad.

Bottom line - ATP is a good school if you are motivated and can keep up with the program, a lot of it will be on you to study and learn the stuff on your own. Your CFI is primarily there to take you up in the airplane and to clarify anything you may be unsure of in the text.

STR8NLVL

Tried to PM you, but I think you haven't posted enough to receive PM's yet. Get your PM's up and I'll send you my number, should you want to talk about it. Here's what I wrote, minus the phone number.

I made the switch from insurance to pilot at age 34 and went through ATP 9 years ago. Best move I ever made. Just got hired with Atlas to fly 747's!

Just be prepared for CFI pay of under 20k for a year and a half to two years, and then regional pay starting in the 20's and then going to the 30-40's until you upgrade. Regional FO was a hard grind. Once you make CA, it gets much better. But it's impossible to predict how long that will really take.

As far as ATP goes, I had a great experience and continue to instruct for their CRJ program on the side to this day. Not sure where the dude got that living expenses and iPads run up your costs, as those are included in the price of the program?? As long has you have the discipline to self-study it's a great program. If you need someone to teach you the book stuff, it's a much harder row to hoe. But overall, for the fixed cost and short time frame, I recommend it for someone who is reaching the age where time is of the essence.

Feel free to give me a call if you've got more questions. I'm off all weekend.

Heath

Aviator89

I did my CFII/MEI add on. It was worth the money IMO. A seneca around here was 330 an hour wet, seminoles 250ish, no real good MEI's available to knock it out. So i decided to go to CRG in Jan of last year when it was snowing here. I enjoyed it. But you will see that the CFI's tend to appear burned out, or just not as enthusiastic as the local FBO i worked at. But 10-12 hour days and foreign students will do that to you.
If you went through a local FBO or mom and pop flight school you could get away with 40-45 K total, but nowhere near 100 hours multi unless you can find a Seminole/Duchess with reasonable block pricing. With that in mind, ATP is not bad. Much better than spending 3 times that on a Embry Riddle or UND flight school. However, be wary of the "extra costs" not listed in the big listed price you see on the website. If you cannot complete it within the designated hours its 400+ per hour for extra training. :/ However they are good at getting you to standards by the time you take your checkride. For me CFII/MEI add on, we basically flew the checkrides 3-4 times each, used the FTD did some oral test prep and it was a breeze. But I had already had 400 hours of dual, so the teaching part was not a problem for me. Just getting used to the Seminole which I had never flown and ATP's SOP's.
Also check rides were 400-500 each (cash only) and you need a place to stay. unless the offer housing for fast track programs.
I was told they only offer CFI jobs to those who complete the fast track programs. However with the lower rate of attrition due to the new 1500 hour rule I think they "guarantee" a job offer, but who knows when that actually comes.
The fact that they offer cheaper housing for CFI's is cool, but the way they pay is weird but will get you ready for the airlines haha. 1300 or so a month guarantee, plus something like 10$ a flight hour. Extra bonus's when students pass writtens and checkrides on time and on first try.
But its true, when they call you you spend an unknown (normally less than two months) at the call center in Jacksonville FL, until a school has an opening that you want to move to.
If regionals are a target for you, they offer the free regional jet standards course after some dual given (300 hours?). I dont know how much weight it hlds, but if you can pass a course like that, the regionals may favor you over some other CFI since you likely would be able to do better in the sim checks.
but im at 1500 and 100 ME and regionals are calling me. So chances are you wont really need the hundreds upon hundreds of multi time to get hired at a regional, nor will the regional jet standards help at all. But if you are like me and shooting for Compass or one of the "better" regionals, if there is such a thing, more multi PIC will help get you in the door. But like many have done, you cpould fly cargo at 1200TT or go to Piedmont or Silver at ATP mins and with that airline crew experience, jump ship after 6 months or so and go to a different regional.
But flying corporate or cargo in the future? That multi-engine piston time will help a lot.
Hope this helps!

rev4life03

It says it on the website when you read the breakdown in pricing;

"Housing Option ($200 per week) - Add $2,600" - I think its even more in California and New York.

And at the bottom - "Examiners’ fees of approximately $4,200 to $4,800 are not included."

So the 90 day fast track program advertised at a price of $49,995 will actually run you roughly $56,795. You also need to arrive with the iPad or be prepared to buy one and purchase foreflight (or similar?) for the charts and download their app to access the study materials. iPad roughly $600 + $164 for foreflight pro = $764

So the real price for the 90 day program will run you roughly $57,559, but everyone is different, some had to spend more, some have spent less. I'm just trying to show the OP the real price of the program after you add in the extra costs.

Bumper

I am not impressed with ALL ATP many years ago went to the one PNS for my MEI add on. I already had about 1000 dual given. My instructor was horrible turned out he never trained anyone for MEI, kept getting bumped from the schedule so he could fly with the 2 day ATP guys. Did one flight with them and got a refund and left.

I would do as much of your training with the local FBO if you can find a good instructor fly your butt off they will be much cheaper and I think you will get just as good or most likely better training. If they have no multi locally then go some where just for the multi ratings. Best of luck

Ders

Thanks a lot for all of the advice / thoughts! Sounds like I have a lot of thinking to do regarding the direction I want to take. I will be able to self finance so that is at least good with ATP. I have no idea how anyone with debt from school can live off of these regional pilot pay checks. I also already have an iPad which will help with some of the extra fees.

So, given that seniority seems to be everything in this industry, I think I'm leaning more towards ATP so I can get to CFI more quickly. I don't doubt I can get a more personalized touch with the mom & pop schools, I'm just concerned for timing. I feel like if I make the decision to leave the corporate world I should be full speed ahead with my training and not look back.

What is the ME time minimum for ATP? Is it 50hrs? My Private Pilot school does have a Beechcraft Travel Air with a wet rate of $250/hr…

STR8NLVL - I would definitely like to take you up on that chat. I appreciate that. I think 5 posts gets me to where I can send a PM so I will drop one more somewhere and see if I can contact you.

Aviator89

Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) is 50 hours in category and class. So 50 multi. As far as I know all of that does not need to be PIC. But come june/july there will be some changes. I think only for 121 though. ground school req's for the written, a written endorsement, level c/d simulator etc. All of that is not required as of now. Get the written done before then and the 24 calnedar months grandfathers the written in past the new regs.