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03-13-2016, 08:05 PM

#11

Boxer94

On Reserve

Thread Starter

Joined APC: Mar 2016

Posts: 12

First post here , and I did study and I was prepared , and I do know if I went to the other FSDO I would have passed, Doesn't match up if someone I knew busted and passed at a different Fsdo, unless we both sucked . But really just looking for some help trying to turn this into a beneficial positive explanation.

03-13-2016, 08:40 PM

#12

JamesNoBrakes

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Nov 2011

Position: Volleyball Player

Posts: 3,982

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxer94

I can honestly say on my private ride I never even knew what a PTS was ,Young low hour pilot , nervous as can be but it was my fault I should have researched for it or I would assume my flight instructor could have mentioned it as I do to all my students . But any how the examiner had me perform a turning stall something I have never done during training or on my phase check. Gave it my best shot and the examiner said we'll have to do that again . On my commercial single I missed my touchdown point on my power off 180 and asked if I would be allowed to perform it again but the examiner said no second chanches , probably should have went around but finished it the next day

Well in the Cfi oral , the examiners both stated I was merely data dumping and not teaching , and they gave me a 8710 to look over and find mistakes on which Isn't even part of the PTS , and I missed some things on there such as some abbreviations. But anyway took the failure came back and did an 8 hour oral and on the flight I performed a power off stall to commercial standards , and then to private standards for a full break and had a wing drop which throw me out off standards . I explained why it happend and taught through the recovery but the examiner didn't let it slide. He gave me the option to come back and just finish the flight but I elected to go to a different FSDO and take the entire ride over and by far was the best examiner I have ever had for a checkride and that's why I beat myself up over it

There are still issues there. There's nothing that says you can't have a wing drop during a stall. And yeah, "teaching" vs. "telling" is usually the real trick there. It's not easy, especially since you are expected to be a "teacher" and essentially have zero experience really teaching at the time of the checkride. It's not as easy as it sometimes sounds to really engage someone, rather than "tell them".

Quote:

Task C: Power-On Stalls (ASEL and ASES)
NOTE: In some high performance airplanes, the power setting may
have to be reduced below the practical test standards
guideline power setting to prevent excessively high pitch
attitudes (greater than 30° nose up).
References: FAA-H-8083-3; AC 61-67; POH/AFM.
Objective: To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to
power-on stalls.
2. Selects an entry altitude that allows the task to be
completed no lower than 1,500 feet AGL.
3. Establishes the takeoff or departure configuration as
specified by the examiner. Sets power to no less than 65
percent available power.
4. Transitions smoothly from the takeoff or departure attitude
to the pitch attitude that will induce a stall.
5. Maintains a specified heading, ±10°, if in straight flight;
maintains a specified angle of bank not to exceed 20°,
±10°, if in turning flight, while inducing the stall.
6. Recognizes and recovers promptly after a fully developed
stall occurs.
7. Retracts the flaps to the recommended setting; retracts the
landing gear if retractable, after a positive rate of climb is
established.
8. Accelerates to VX or VY speed before the final flap
retraction; returns to the altitude, heading, and airspeed
specified by the examiner.

Now, if you grossly mishandled the airplane as to starting a spin, ok, but that's not the same thing as a wing drop, which can happen and as long as you quickly reduce the AOA to break the stall and get aileron effectiveness back (another incorrect technique that is often taught is to yaw the hell out of the airplane with the rudder, as if it's going to roll the airplane upright, good way to start a spin though) and recover within the same heading standards, it's perfectly fine.

But this is what you should learn. Maybe some of these are tough lessons, but with the knowledge of these things, you should be able to prevent someone trying to fail you for something not contained in the standards. If they do, you go to their boss.

03-13-2016, 09:14 PM

#13

JohnBurke

Disinterested Third Party

Joined APC: Jun 2012

Posts: 6,009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxer94

... and I do know if I went to the other FSDO I would have passed...

That's all you needed to say. It tells me everything that I need to know about you. Speaks volumes.

The only thing you've learned from your previous mistake is how to project the blame onto the FSDO, and you're still doing it.

I strongly suggest you use that as your platform in an interview. See how it works for you.

03-14-2016, 05:51 AM

#14

Boxer94

On Reserve

Thread Starter

Joined APC: Mar 2016

Posts: 12

I know it wasn't a severe wing drop just enough to get me out of the +10 -10 degree heading allowance . While I did use it as a teaching moment , the examiner stated it was out of standards on the recovery . But I can't do anything about it , since it was 3 years ago .

03-14-2016, 05:55 AM

#15

JohnBurke

Disinterested Third Party

Joined APC: Jun 2012

Posts: 6,009

You know that a "wing drop" doesn't cause a heading change, right? You know that failure to maintain directional control does that, right?

But you know it was the wrong FSDO that caused it instead, right? Because someone else would have let you get away with it?

You're sure that you're not the guy that wanted to surrender his certificates and re-test for everything, to cover up his past? Your comments sound a lot like him.

03-14-2016, 06:19 AM

#16

Boxer94

On Reserve

Thread Starter

Joined APC: Mar 2016

Posts: 12

I'm just stating what happend , and when you drop a wing , you will lose heading ( directional control ) and I went past the tolerance . All I'm doing is explaining what happend , And the other Fsdo had an examiner that was actually there to see you succeed not just intimidate you and nit pick . I never once said I'm blaming it on somebody . I took the ride and I failed to meet standards . All I'm saying is many people have went to this Fsdo and have not had luck and end up going somewhere else to have luck .

03-14-2016, 06:58 AM

#17

LAXative

Banned

Joined APC: Mar 2016

Posts: 292

Dude, you have FOUR checkride busts. You might as well be radioactive as far as the regionals are concerned. The first thing that will go through a regional HR type's thoughts when they see your resume with four failures is that the media will FRY their airline if YOU are involved in ANY accident or even an incident that would make it to the media.

03-14-2016, 07:02 AM

#18

Boxer94

On Reserve

Thread Starter

Joined APC: Mar 2016

Posts: 12

So your saying I'm the first person in the world that's going to be hired at a regional with four busts ? If so why have they all called me back when all this is on my app ?

03-14-2016, 07:21 AM

#19

LAXative

Banned

Joined APC: Mar 2016

Posts: 292

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxer94

So your saying I'm the first person in the world that's going to be hired at a regional with four busts ? If so why have they all called me back when all this is on my app ?

They call you because they are so desperate for pilots that they will talk to you. It costs them nothing and maybe you have a valid reason for your failures, but when you actually talk to them the truth comes out that you are blaming others for your failures, they send you packing.