ATP Flight School?
01-26-2017, 03:52 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 75
ATP Flight School?
Has anyone gone through the ATP 100-day program? I have heard that it's overrated. Is it overrated or too intense?
Is it too demanding? Is it worth the investment?
Can anyone who's personally gone through it shed some light on the subject?
Is it too demanding? Is it worth the investment?
Can anyone who's personally gone through it shed some light on the subject?
01-27-2017, 08:38 AM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 79
The questions you ask are highly subjective. I have a little experience, so I'll try to shed as much light as I can.
Is it overrated?
Once again, highly subjective. ATP is really good at marketing themselves and really likes to tout all the relationships with various airlines. There are no hidden "gottchas" or a lot of fine print, but it is easy to get lost in all the airline logos. In today's hiring environment, I really don't see these relationships as advantageous as ATP would like to make them out to be, especially since none of them have any reduced hiring minimums for ATP Grads.
Too Intense/demanding?
Success in the program depends on you making ATP your number one priority during training. While this sounds like a lot, it's really not. It's less demanding than a full time job, but more intense than full time college courses.
Having a part time job during training is possible, but my CFI explained to me that most students don't fully balance out thier ATP life/free time well enough to accommodate a part time job until late in thier training program anyway. If you have a side job where you are fully in control of your schedule (think Lyft/Uber, etc), then that may work for you.
Once you put down a deposit on a class date, your entire program is scheduled. This schedule is not set in stone, but can change based on weather, holidays, and other unforeseen events. If you need a day off for a doctors appointment, or a few days off to attend to family issues, these too can be accommodated.
During my short time with ATP Denver, there were many students that were technically behind on thier respective training schedules. Bottom line: don't expect to be taking a lot of extra time off.
Also keep in mind that if you need "extra" training, you will be charged extra. For example, I think (I don't have my materials with me) that PPL students acquire 50hrs before they are to take the checkride. If the CFI determines that an extra hour or two are needed for the student to be ready, you'll probably not be charged extra. However, if you're not at all ready and need more than just a few more trips around the pattern, they'll wan't more money. The rates are fully disclosed before any training starts and you'll be told if there will be any extra fee training.
Is it worth the investment?
That's completely up to you. We're talking about a lot of money. Most critics of ATP say that it's way too expensive. That may be true, depending on what other options are available to you. It may be less expensive to go to a local FBO or a smaller flight school. For me, I found that the cost was about equal. Also for me, it was easier to borrow the necessary funds than do the "pay as you go" as I found that knowing how much money I had to "play" with easier to work with than an open ended arrangement. To each his own.
ATP isn't the worst place to train. It also isn't the worst. If you can, visit the nearest location. Meet the people. Go for an intro training flight. Talk/visit with other training establishments. See what works for you.
Is it overrated?
Once again, highly subjective. ATP is really good at marketing themselves and really likes to tout all the relationships with various airlines. There are no hidden "gottchas" or a lot of fine print, but it is easy to get lost in all the airline logos. In today's hiring environment, I really don't see these relationships as advantageous as ATP would like to make them out to be, especially since none of them have any reduced hiring minimums for ATP Grads.
Too Intense/demanding?
Success in the program depends on you making ATP your number one priority during training. While this sounds like a lot, it's really not. It's less demanding than a full time job, but more intense than full time college courses.
Having a part time job during training is possible, but my CFI explained to me that most students don't fully balance out thier ATP life/free time well enough to accommodate a part time job until late in thier training program anyway. If you have a side job where you are fully in control of your schedule (think Lyft/Uber, etc), then that may work for you.
Once you put down a deposit on a class date, your entire program is scheduled. This schedule is not set in stone, but can change based on weather, holidays, and other unforeseen events. If you need a day off for a doctors appointment, or a few days off to attend to family issues, these too can be accommodated.
During my short time with ATP Denver, there were many students that were technically behind on thier respective training schedules. Bottom line: don't expect to be taking a lot of extra time off.
Also keep in mind that if you need "extra" training, you will be charged extra. For example, I think (I don't have my materials with me) that PPL students acquire 50hrs before they are to take the checkride. If the CFI determines that an extra hour or two are needed for the student to be ready, you'll probably not be charged extra. However, if you're not at all ready and need more than just a few more trips around the pattern, they'll wan't more money. The rates are fully disclosed before any training starts and you'll be told if there will be any extra fee training.
Is it worth the investment?
That's completely up to you. We're talking about a lot of money. Most critics of ATP say that it's way too expensive. That may be true, depending on what other options are available to you. It may be less expensive to go to a local FBO or a smaller flight school. For me, I found that the cost was about equal. Also for me, it was easier to borrow the necessary funds than do the "pay as you go" as I found that knowing how much money I had to "play" with easier to work with than an open ended arrangement. To each his own.
ATP isn't the worst place to train. It also isn't the worst. If you can, visit the nearest location. Meet the people. Go for an intro training flight. Talk/visit with other training establishments. See what works for you.
01-27-2017, 08:37 PM
#3
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 375
If you want to ram through as fast as possible, then yes ATP is great. Their training is very good, standardized, their equipment is good for the most part, and it is a very structured program given a part 61.
I suspect most students don't complete in the time allotted and as such get charged extra. See above about their marketing... they look a lot quicker and less expensive on paper than they actually are. Also depending on location they may push you to take check rides when you are not ready to. Their focus really is the bottom line.
I met a lot of great people there, great instructors and great staff, and I do not regret going, but realize they over-market their program. If you know that going in, then you'll be ok.
I suspect most students don't complete in the time allotted and as such get charged extra. See above about their marketing... they look a lot quicker and less expensive on paper than they actually are. Also depending on location they may push you to take check rides when you are not ready to. Their focus really is the bottom line.
I met a lot of great people there, great instructors and great staff, and I do not regret going, but realize they over-market their program. If you know that going in, then you'll be ok.
02-14-2017, 03:08 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 300
I'm currently in the 100H 100 day program.... it really is as fast as you think.
the planes are really nice... for what they are, depending on location you could have an all glass cockpit, or all steam gauges. I am at LZU here in Georgia and i personally had all glass g500 archers with 80 hours on them for my private. steam gauge cessna 172 for my time build, and now i am in a steam gauge 79 seminole with 12000 hours on it.... all the planes are pretty good for the most part though.
They really did know what they were doing when they layed this course out. everything that you do is built up so you can get everyone done literally ASAP. i questioned some of their "course layout" just to find out that it all leads to another thing and gets your from nothing to CFI as quick as possible. It is not as rushed as people make it seem, once you start in the program everything just kind of flows together and feels completely natural, and you fly a ton so it doesn't every really leave your mind.
Just got my private multi today and i start working on my instrument tomorrow. A couple friends of mine who started in june are now CFI's at my location and other places.
All the locations are different. some are super serious, some are to much messing around and there are some with the perfect amount of goofing off and seriousness to get everyone where they need to be when they need to be there. Some locations will be a office in an FBO, others will be their own hangers and offices.... some big, some small. really just depends, LZU is one of the nicest ATP locations so i have heard.
If you need any more info i highly suggest you check out my friend Ryan's youtube channel - Prop&Gear. He went in with his private single and did a week by week review of everything that he did up until now.
So far i have nothing but love for this program, there are some things that could be better but they do what they say they will. i was pretty skeptical at first after reading forum posts and stuff.
Goodluck.
the planes are really nice... for what they are, depending on location you could have an all glass cockpit, or all steam gauges. I am at LZU here in Georgia and i personally had all glass g500 archers with 80 hours on them for my private. steam gauge cessna 172 for my time build, and now i am in a steam gauge 79 seminole with 12000 hours on it.... all the planes are pretty good for the most part though.
They really did know what they were doing when they layed this course out. everything that you do is built up so you can get everyone done literally ASAP. i questioned some of their "course layout" just to find out that it all leads to another thing and gets your from nothing to CFI as quick as possible. It is not as rushed as people make it seem, once you start in the program everything just kind of flows together and feels completely natural, and you fly a ton so it doesn't every really leave your mind.
Just got my private multi today and i start working on my instrument tomorrow. A couple friends of mine who started in june are now CFI's at my location and other places.
All the locations are different. some are super serious, some are to much messing around and there are some with the perfect amount of goofing off and seriousness to get everyone where they need to be when they need to be there. Some locations will be a office in an FBO, others will be their own hangers and offices.... some big, some small. really just depends, LZU is one of the nicest ATP locations so i have heard.
If you need any more info i highly suggest you check out my friend Ryan's youtube channel - Prop&Gear. He went in with his private single and did a week by week review of everything that he did up until now.
So far i have nothing but love for this program, there are some things that could be better but they do what they say they will. i was pretty skeptical at first after reading forum posts and stuff.
Goodluck.
02-16-2017, 10:24 AM
#6
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 375
Originally Posted by yeahbutstill
You're going to be in so much debt it is not even funny
02-17-2017, 08:01 PM
#8
just a number
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: arm flapper
Posts: 72
I love how most people never say this about getting a college degree....whereas...most people can't pay the tuition fees for college so that means....take loan on the government unless you make great money and can fork out the cash out of pocket...otherwise bring on the debt! Don't listen to any debt related statement bc college will do it to you too!
Originally Posted by yeahbutstill
You're going to be in so much debt it is not even funny
02-22-2017, 08:47 PM
#9
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 21
I'm thinking about doing ATP myself at VGT. Currently 29, with a masters degree in aviation safety and significant experience on the corporate Part 121 safety and regulatory compliance side of the business. I figure now's as good of a time as any before I decide to get married and have kids and all that...
Costs for ATP, at least here in Vegas, are roughly on par with what other flight schools offer in the area for the same type of program. Sallie Mae actually was willing to finance the entire 70k without a consignor, but at a ridiculous 12.75% interest rate. I used the financing approval for a free intro flight with ATP, but as far as actually using that financing, I can tell them to go shove their interest rate. Luckily I'm able to pay for about 65k of it myself, and will supplement anything additional I need with a Home Equity line that's between 5-6%.
I honestly am looking forward to taking a break from the administrative side of the airlines. While I don't mind the office work, I'm looking forward to an office with a little bit better view for a while.
In the mid to long run, with my current experience, this will also open more doors for me in the industry. While I'm not looking to become the chief pilot, I'm already pretty familiar and experienced with IOSA/QA Auditing, flight ops safety programs (i.e. ASAP and FOQA), compliance, standards, etc. On the union or airline side, I'd like to be involved in some with way these programs, because I know how important they are to maintaining a safe operation.
Costs for ATP, at least here in Vegas, are roughly on par with what other flight schools offer in the area for the same type of program. Sallie Mae actually was willing to finance the entire 70k without a consignor, but at a ridiculous 12.75% interest rate. I used the financing approval for a free intro flight with ATP, but as far as actually using that financing, I can tell them to go shove their interest rate. Luckily I'm able to pay for about 65k of it myself, and will supplement anything additional I need with a Home Equity line that's between 5-6%.
I honestly am looking forward to taking a break from the administrative side of the airlines. While I don't mind the office work, I'm looking forward to an office with a little bit better view for a while.
In the mid to long run, with my current experience, this will also open more doors for me in the industry. While I'm not looking to become the chief pilot, I'm already pretty familiar and experienced with IOSA/QA Auditing, flight ops safety programs (i.e. ASAP and FOQA), compliance, standards, etc. On the union or airline side, I'd like to be involved in some with way these programs, because I know how important they are to maintaining a safe operation.
02-23-2017, 11:26 AM
#10
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 375
Originally Posted by AeroAl
I'm thinking about doing ATP myself at VGT. Currently 29, with a masters degree in aviation safety and significant experience on the corporate Part 121 safety and regulatory compliance side of the business. I figure now's as good of a time as any before I decide to get married and have kids and all that...
Costs for ATP, at least here in Vegas, are roughly on par with what other flight schools offer in the area for the same type of program. Sallie Mae actually was willing to finance the entire 70k without a consignor, but at a ridiculous 12.75% interest rate. I used the financing approval for a free intro flight with ATP, but as far as actually using that financing, I can tell them to go shove their interest rate. Luckily I'm able to pay for about 65k of it myself, and will supplement anything additional I need with a Home Equity line that's between 5-6%.
I honestly am looking forward to taking a break from the administrative side of the airlines. While I don't mind the office work, I'm looking forward to an office with a little bit better view for a while.
In the mid to long run, with my current experience, this will also open more doors for me in the industry. While I'm not looking to become the chief pilot, I'm already pretty familiar and experienced with IOSA/QA Auditing, flight ops safety programs (i.e. ASAP and FOQA), compliance, standards, etc. On the union or airline side, I'd like to be involved in some with way these programs, because I know how important they are to maintaining a safe operation.
Costs for ATP, at least here in Vegas, are roughly on par with what other flight schools offer in the area for the same type of program. Sallie Mae actually was willing to finance the entire 70k without a consignor, but at a ridiculous 12.75% interest rate. I used the financing approval for a free intro flight with ATP, but as far as actually using that financing, I can tell them to go shove their interest rate. Luckily I'm able to pay for about 65k of it myself, and will supplement anything additional I need with a Home Equity line that's between 5-6%.
I honestly am looking forward to taking a break from the administrative side of the airlines. While I don't mind the office work, I'm looking forward to an office with a little bit better view for a while.
In the mid to long run, with my current experience, this will also open more doors for me in the industry. While I'm not looking to become the chief pilot, I'm already pretty familiar and experienced with IOSA/QA Auditing, flight ops safety programs (i.e. ASAP and FOQA), compliance, standards, etc. On the union or airline side, I'd like to be involved in some with way these programs, because I know how important they are to maintaining a safe operation.
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